Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HashtagBlessed »

I don't believe it's a boredom thing. Maybe she starts doing it when she's not occupied with something else, but I do think it's an outlet for anxiety and Olivia is just too young to recognize or articulate it, or she's having problems with excessive dry skin.

It sounds like Bonnie doesn't want to admit it, but she has indeed changed her approach, she's just too stubborn to say so outright. She's now rewarding her daughter with a new dress for her doll and pierced ears. Isn't that what the commenters were telling her to do in the first place? Use positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement? At least she was willing to address the criticism in the vlog. But from my perspective she definitely switched her approach, but didn't what to say, "I was wrong."

But it completely makes sense that Bonnie responded the way that she did, considering her dad would tell her when she was younger that she needed to go 21 days without having a "bad attitude."
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

I have a son with anxiety. DIAGNOSED and concerning anxiety. I 100% get what Bonnie means when she says she watches her children. I don't think Olivia is anxious and she's just missing it. I like that they talked to her and tried to find out what might be going on. That's exactly how my son's doctors taught us to deal with him. Anxiety can be present others can't see it whereas a patient can. Similarly, people can perceive an action as anxiety related when it in fact is not. I've seen this with my own son.... as well as myself. I twirl my hair when tired, but my husband perceives it as I'm angry/anxious. The fact that Olivia actually broke the habit, tells me that it wasn't an unconscious habit. She obviously replaced it with something, and feels good about herself for it. As a nail biter myself, I wish I could break the habit that easily! I thought taking the doll was a bit harsh, but it obviously worked for them and Olivia doesn't seem traumatized by it.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

^ I meant to say a parent can watch and see anxiety in their child whereas others can't. Similarly people can see an action as anxiety and it could be completely innocent. Olivia herself said it was boredom. Who are we to say it wasn't when she broke a habit that for most people is impossible to do?
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by AutumnLane »

Not a fan of the glass table top. I'm also put off by the response Bonnie gave Boston after he pinched his finger in the door. She didn't really embrace him or comfort him. What type of parent witnesses a child doing something dangerous and walks away to get the camera so they can film it? Then when he was speaking to her about wanting to play outside she ignored him multiple times. Answer the poor child!

Why isn't Bonnie concerned with the fact Olivia is bored during school on a daily basis? Maybe she's not being challenged enough academically. Oh that's right because she could care less about academics.

I sincerely hope they aren't considering pulling the children out of school for weeks at a time for a vacation.

Personal. My father passed away a few days before Christmas. Also during that time my mother had open heart surgery and much of the responsibility fell on myself. Unfortunately for various reasons they could not stay with me. Further from the hospital, my father's medical equipment couldn't be transferred, home nurses wouldn't travel to my county etc. My husband and myself considered pulling the kids out of school to stay with them for a few weeks. Ultimately we decided against that. After speaking to the school we learned how quickly you can fall behind with Common Core. Public schools very much frown upon pulling children out for any other reason other than them being sick. Being so involved with the district I also didn't want to stir the pot. That was such a heart wrenching decision to make. We made the 45 minute commute multiple times a day, ended up hiring a sitter and my husband used his vacation. We made it work.

Point being...we really committed to not interrupting the kids school routine. We did whatever we have to do to make sure they didn't miss a day even if the situation was out of our control. Why any parent would think it's appropriate to pull children out of school for weeks at a time voluntarily is beyond me.




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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HashtagBlessed »

HelloSweetie wrote:^ I meant to say a parent can watch and see anxiety in their child whereas others can't. Similarly people can see an action as anxiety and it could be completely innocent. Olivia herself said it was boredom. Who are we to say it wasn't when she broke a habit that for most people is impossible to do?
I think that's definitely a possibility, but Olivia also recognizes the fact that her life is filmed and put online for many people to watch. She may or may not grasp that half a million people are watching her and all that entails, but she knows there's an audience. Is she going to feel safe telling her mom anything knowing it could become fodder for the vlog? Did she want it filmed when she got the skin on her tongue taken off by the frozen pole? Or did she want it filmed when her doll was taken away? I think Bonnie is underestimating the effect making her kids "YouTube famous" would have on their behavior and her relationships with them.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

HashtagBlessed wrote:
HelloSweetie wrote:^ I meant to say a parent can watch and see anxiety in their child whereas others can't. Similarly people can see an action as anxiety and it could be completely innocent. Olivia herself said it was boredom. Who are we to say it wasn't when she broke a habit that for most people is impossible to do?
I think that's definitely a possibility, but Olivia also recognizes the fact that her life is filmed and put online for many people to watch. She may or may not grasp that half a million people are watching her and all that entails, but she knows there's an audience. Is she going to feel safe telling her mom anything knowing it could become fodder for the vlog? Did she want it filmed when she got the skin on her tongue taken off by the frozen pole? Or did she want it filmed when her doll was taken away? I think Bonnie is underestimating the effect making her kids "YouTube famous" would have on their behavior and her relationships with them.
She felt safe enough to tell them that she had "picked" one day short of getting her doll back. She seems very comfortable talking to Joel and Bonnie. I don't see any signs of being insecure about the vlogs or about her relationship with her parents.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by ewokfan11 »

Scar2016 wrote:I think most of us can admit to being on a holiday high when coming back from a great trip so at this point I'm interested to see if this long trip follows through. She's a very excitable person for far less so can imagine she's somewhat on a high from an amazing vacation location, especially given that finances have not afforded her family such trips until now.

I'm also interested to see, if this trip does transpire, how it will play out timing and school wise with their other up coming vacation to Disneyland. Those are two mighty special and expensive trips in the same year, sponsored or otherwise.
I agree. It's just a vacation high and it would be sort of irresponsible to take the kids out of school just to bring them back in a few months and probably behind their classmates.

The other issue: They want to spend a month or two in Hawaii? During peak season (Feb/Mar)?? Renting a house there - one that's not even on or close to the beach and probably far from Honolulu - would be at least $10,000 a month. AT LEAST! My relatives have a very nice house in the hills above Honolulu and rent it out for $2500 a NIGHT!

I've spent months in Hawaii myself - but mostly on Maui - and it does get boring and feels very isolated. It's called "rock fever" and it's a real thing. A week or two and I'm always ready to go home.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HashtagBlessed »

HelloSweetie wrote:
HashtagBlessed wrote:
HelloSweetie wrote:^ I meant to say a parent can watch and see anxiety in their child whereas others can't. Similarly people can see an action as anxiety and it could be completely innocent. Olivia herself said it was boredom. Who are we to say it wasn't when she broke a habit that for most people is impossible to do?
I think that's definitely a possibility, but Olivia also recognizes the fact that her life is filmed and put online for many people to watch. She may or may not grasp that half a million people are watching her and all that entails, but she knows there's an audience. Is she going to feel safe telling her mom anything knowing it could become fodder for the vlog? Did she want it filmed when she got the skin on her tongue taken off by the frozen pole? Or did she want it filmed when her doll was taken away? I think Bonnie is underestimating the effect making her kids "YouTube famous" would have on their behavior and her relationships with them.
She felt safe enough to tell them that she had "picked" one day short of getting her doll back. She seems very comfortable talking to Joel and Bonnie. I don't see any signs of being insecure about the vlogs or about her relationship with her parents.
But picking at the skin on her fingers is readily apparent to anyone who looks at her hands. It would have been obvious to her parents whether she told them immediately or not. She hardly had a choice in the matter, unless she could hide the evidence.

Do you really think that putting a camera in a child's face every day and uploading the footage to YouTube doesn't have an affect on the child? I felt hurt as a child if I found out my mother had shared something personal or embarrassing about me with her sisters. I can't fathom knowing that so many strangers were getting a daily narration of my life. Soon she will be old enough to read the comments and the forums. Everything they're doing now to violate their kids' privacy is going to have a lasting effect on their relationships with them, especially once the children are older and gain more control over themselves. I don't know that I could ever have a relationship with my parents as an adult if I had been raised on YouTube the way these kids are being raised. Such a betrayal to sell your children's privacy (including nude footage) for a paycheck. In fact, as much as I liked Bonnie in the beginning, I'm realizing I'm complicit by watching her videos, so maybe I'll have to make a conscious effort to not tune in anymore.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by tratra58 »

While I do believe Bonnie has a bit of a stubborn nature, she did change by using a reward(s) with Olivia's nail biting. I also noted she doesn't film in the bathroom anymore and kids are dressed all the time. She is listening to negative comments and I give her credit for these changes. As far as Boston's finger, I don't think she ran to get the camera to film it, it just happened as she ran to get the camera. I will add I think it is hard to know if Olivia is anxious or bored based off a vlog and thus far the outcome was a positive with Olivia not biting her nail so she might just be right.

I also don't think she'll pull the kids out of school for a trip, but would wait till summer. If she did, it would be their decision to homeschool and I don't see them doing this in a middle of a school year. I really doubt a public school would be ok with pulling students out this long. I wrote a few weeks back about Utah's culture with education is what you normally see in their household. It is interesting topic which includes women in college dropping out when they marry, students going to kindergarten unprepared etc...
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by tratra58 »

She felt safe enough to tell them that she had "picked" one day short of getting her doll back. She seems very comfortable talking to Joel and Bonnie. I don't see any signs of being insecure about the vlogs or about her relationship with her parents.[/quote]

But picking at the skin on her fingers is readily apparent to anyone who looks at her hands. It would have been obvious to her parents whether she told them immediately or not. She hardly had a choice in the matter, unless she could hide the evidence.

Do you really think that putting a camera in a child's face every day and uploading the footage to YouTube doesn't have an affect on the child? I felt hurt as a child if I found out my mother had shared something personal or embarrassing about me with her sisters. I can't fathom knowing that so many strangers were getting a daily narration of my life. Soon she will be old enough to read the comments and the forums. Everything they're doing now to violate their kids' privacy is going to have a lasting effect on their relationships with them, especially once the children are older and gain more control over themselves. I don't know that I could ever have a relationship with my parents as an adult if I had been raised on YouTube the way these kids are being raised. Such a betrayal to sell your children's privacy (including nude footage) for a paycheck. In fact, as much as I liked Bonnie in the beginning, I'm realizing I'm complacent by watching her videos, so maybe I'll have to make a conscious effort to not tune in anymore.[/quote]


tratra58 response:
That is the million dollar question is how YouTube will affect children and I don't know if there is an answer yet. I don't disagree with what you are saying with kid's privacy and it would be a good research for someone in child psychology to exam. For now, there are millions of viewers watching family channel daily vlogs and they are compensated for it. Again, a good question to how this type of social media/YouTube will affect their children in the future. The kids might just create their own channel to tell us the good and the bad with being a child on a family YouTube channel.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by menehune »

Wow. I'm surprised to see all the negativity today! I thought Bonnie and Joel showed a remarkable amount of sensitivity to Olivia. I think compared to most family bloggers these days, who are detached and view their children as props, Joel and Bonnie are doing a really great job. They seem sensitive to their children's needs, and emotionally engaged. I'm not sure why they are always getting the most criticism for exploiting their children, when all family vloggers are guilty of this, and some go to the extent of even setting up an scripting content. B&J haven't done any of these things. They seem to be doing right by their kids, while still letting them be individuals! Sorry, I just don't see what many of you are talking about.

Olivia is at an age where she has a voice. I don't see any signs of B&J controlling or threatening her. She seems to enjoy talking to the camera, and had no problem sitting down to talk about the nail biting issue. We have no reason to believe that Olivia was just telling her parents that she was bored because that was what they wanted to hear. I think a lot of people are reaching in that regard. A day may come where she doesn't like her information being out there, but I don't think that day is today. Olivia likes the attention, and was sitting there when Bonnie talked about the tongue accident at the end of the one vlog. It's entirely possible she calmed down and told her mom it was ok to leave in. There are a lot of crappy YT parents out there, but B&J aren't at the top of that list.

And I live on Oahu. If they can keep busy in Logan, they can certainly find things to do for a month here! Oahu has a lot more to do than Maui does, although my fellow islanders will probable object to the opinion that 2 weeks in Maui leads to boredom.... if a vlogger had the nerve to complain about being bored in HI, these boards would rip them to shreds. Plus there are plenty of rentals that you can get for less than $10k a month... not that they $10k is unreasonable when you do the math. Plenty of people spend half that on a one week vacation!
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by IceCreamCone »

HashtagBlessed wrote:
HelloSweetie wrote:
But picking at the skin on her fingers is readily apparent to anyone who looks at her hands. It would have been obvious to her parents whether she told them immediately or not. She hardly had a choice in the matter, unless she could hide the evidence.

Do you really think that putting a camera in a child's face every day and uploading the footage to YouTube doesn't have an affect on the child? I felt hurt as a child if I found out my mother had shared something personal or embarrassing about me with her sisters. I can't fathom knowing that so many strangers were getting a daily narration of my life. Soon she will be old enough to read the comments and the forums. Everything they're doing now to violate their kids' privacy is going to have a lasting effect on their relationships with them, especially once the children are older and gain more control over themselves. I don't know that I could ever have a relationship with my parents as an adult if I had been raised on YouTube the way these kids are being raised. Such a betrayal to sell your children's privacy (including nude footage) for a paycheck. In fact, as much as I liked Bonnie in the beginning, I'm realizing I'm complicit by watching her videos, so maybe I'll have to make a conscious effort to not tune in anymore.
Plenty of kids are willing to lie to protect their asses even when things are readily apparent though. This would have relied on Joel actually realizing the picking injuries were new, and not just the result of chapped skin. Olivia was honest because she seems like she has a really open relationship with Bonnie and Joel. I fail to see how everyone can argue against that and be so sure these children are somehow repressed?

Yet putting a camera in their face could have ill effects, but B&J are hardly the worst offenders of this. Lets be real here, Olivia is on camera very little compared to to toddlers of YT.

I think this topic keeps coming up on this board because when a vlog is otherwise positive and theres nothing to talk about, it's the only really available negative to go to. Not saying it's not a valid discussion to have, but it feels like it gets repeated more on this board than any other, and I don't see where Bonnie and Joel are among even the worst offenders like implied.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by tratra58 »

menehune wrote: And I live on Oahu. If they can keep busy in Logan, they can certainly find things to do for a month here! Oahu has a lot more to do than Maui does, although my fellow islanders will probable object to the opinion that 2 weeks in Maui leads to boredom.... if a vlogger had the nerve to complain about being bored in HI, these boards would rip them to shreds. Plus there are plenty of rentals that you can get for less than $10k a month... not that they $10k is unreasonable when you do the math. Plenty of people spend half that on a one week vacation!

I am sure they would find plenty to do on Oahu. It is personal preference and while I love the ocean, I really enjoy visiting historical sites and one of my favorites is presidential libraries.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HashtagBlessed »

When someone is saying something about a family vlogger that happens to be both critical and true, the default response from those who personally like the vlogger seems to be "Well, all family vloggers are guilty of this, why are you picking on this particular channel?" This is Bonnie's board, so it makes sense to be talking about Bonnie specifically. But I never claimed they were the "worst" offenders. But to say that something isn't noteworthy because it's true of all vloggers seems to be deflecting blame away from Bonnie and Joel for how they choose to use their children and make their money.

Part of the reason it comes up I think is because Bonnie came into her popularity relatively recently. It wasn't too long ago she was only filming a few days a week and Joel was working full-time. So it's a relatively new phenomenon for them.

It's pretty clear that Bonnie comes from a family where any negative emotion was punished and eventually repressed.

I think the children are very much treated as props. We only see what Bonnie and Joel chose to share and the whole family is made to preform for the camera. Olivia's open relationship with her parents is being betrayed by her parents' decision to film their children in sensitive or compromising situations and put it on the internet. It won't be too long before Olivia fully understands and appreciates the magnitude of that, but I agree that day isn't quite today. But she is aware that people are watching her every day and commenting, so I don't doubt that she's self-conscious that she has an audience. It's not so much that the way Bonnie's disciplines is "wrong" but more so the fact that she's sharing these moments to begin with. Her kids may be able to talk and therefore have a "voice" of sorts, but they're still far too young to give consent and they have very little recourse but to get on board with the family business.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by IceCreamCone »

[quote="HashtagBlessed"]

Seriously? Its brought up a lot here, almost daily, and derails the discussion. The same people participate on multiple boards, and I never see this exploitation argument brought up then? It's only when its' a vlogger they already dislike. Bonnie and Joel are exploiting their kids for money by vlogging their day to day lives, they haven't sold them out by having them set up scenes, repeat things, act in commercials, etc. All I'm saying is that if YT has a spectrum of guilt, then by all accounts B&J are some of the best of the worst. Bonnie may not have been allowed to have emotions (that is speculation by the way, because her dad seems to expect her to have emotional reactions to things), but that doesn't mean the Hoellein kids aren't allowed them. Joel is a sensitive and sentimental man and seems to be passing those values on to his children.

I get discussing these things, and I can see that Bonnie and Joel have flaws, but a lot of what Olivia feels/does/thinks is pure speculation, and people are acting like it's fact. That is what I object to. If here parents spoke to her and asked if it was coming from a place of anxiety and Olivia said she was bored then that is what we know. Olivia doesn't have a problem expressing herself. She is quite articulate! It isn't hard to believe that a 7 year old girl would be bored in PE. Do I believe that they should have taken the doll away, not exactly, but I do realize it did work. Maybe they actually did know what they were doing? I probably would have failed. Shoot me for giving credit where it's due. She seems happy no longer biting her nails and I'm happy she's working toward a reward.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by tratra58 »

HashtagBlessed wrote:When someone is saying something about a family vlogger that happens to be both critical and true, the default response from those who personally like the vlogger seems to be "Well, all family vloggers are guilty of this, why are you picking on this particular channel?" This is Bonnie's board, so it makes sense to be talking about Bonnie specifically. But I never claimed they were the "worst" offenders. But to say that something isn't noteworthy because it's true of all vloggers seems to be deflecting blame away from Bonnie and Joel for how they choose to use their children and make their money.

Part of the reason it comes up I think is because Bonnie came into her popularity relatively recently. It wasn't too long ago she was only filming a few days a week and Joel was working full-time. So it's a relatively new phenomenon for them.

It's pretty clear that Bonnie comes from a family where any negative emotion was punished and eventually repressed.

I think the children are very much treated as props. We only see what Bonnie and Joel chose to share and the whole family is made to preform for the camera. Olivia's open relationship with her parents is being betrayed by her parents' decision to film their children in sensitive or compromising situations and put it on the internet. It won't be too long before Olivia fully understands and appreciates the magnitude of that, but I agree that day isn't quite today. But she is aware that people are watching her every day and commenting, so I don't doubt that she's self-conscious that she has an audience. It's not so much that the way Bonnie's disciplines is "wrong" but more so the fact that she's sharing these moments to begin with. Her kids may be able to talk and therefore have a "voice" of sorts, but they're still far too young to give consent and they have very little recourse but to get on board with the family business.
I agree and editing should be Bonnie's friend to ensure her children's privacy. I also agree with your first paragraph, but that seems to be a way of debating with deflection that I've seen too.

They are moving further down the road with YouTube especially this being their sole income. I don't know how it will go as children mature.

It seem to be simpler time with Joel working and vlogging three times a week for a little extra income. I still continue to hope Joel chooses to start a business and YouTube could go back to being part-time. It might be a better family choice for an array of reasons.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

Bonnie and Joel are one of the few vlogging couples that appear to actually be saving for an exit strategy. If the kids come to them one day and say they want out, B&J aren't handcuffed to YouTube like many others. They don't make the kids the stars of the vlogs, the focus is still largely on Bonnie herself. They also take weekends off, unlike so many other family vloggers, and they are careful to not show Olivia's school for privacy reasons.

I agree with ICC, if we are going to talk about exploitation, I believe credit should be given to Bonnie and Joel for at lest minimizing the damage and for using this time to benefit the whole family in the best way. They have an opportunity and they aren't wasting it or taking it for granted. They might even have a healthy savings for those kids. It's likely that DB, E&J, Shaytards, Saccone-Joly's probably don't.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by lmmomSD »

I don't think Bonnie is a terrible parent, nor do I think she's perfect. I think she's like the rest of us, and is doing the best she knows how, and is making mistakes sometimes. The difference is, her mistakes are very public. I just had to laugh at her saying that she's so good at just blowing off negative comments. I mean really, if she was, why would her dad know to call to check on her? And honestly, who among us would be, with a bunch of people second guessing our parenting decisions? I do think she's a better patent than Ellie, and DB. But that doesn't make exploiting the kids OK.
One other thing that was funny, was her saying that Joel biting his nails on the way to the airport couldn't be anxiety. Oh, no. Why would Joel be anxious? He hasn't seen her in a week, and he has Grandma Griff's "spotless house and happy kids" reputation to live up to. No, no need to be anxious there.

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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by tratra58 »

IceCreamCone wrote:
HashtagBlessed wrote:
Seriously? Its brought up a lot here, almost daily, and derails the discussion. The same people participate on multiple boards, and I never see this exploitation argument brought up then? .


There is so much wrong with the others vloggers that the subject gets missed on other boards since it is assume that all the family channels or parents are exploiting children to some degree. It is brought up rarely from what I have seen and topics changes daily with new vlogs.

I think most feel Bonnie and Joel are the best parents of the group you are thinking about on multiple boards.


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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Spreading all the HERPES Part 8

Unread post by ewokfan11 »

tratra58 wrote:
IceCreamCone wrote:
HashtagBlessed wrote:
Seriously? Its brought up a lot here, almost daily, and derails the discussion. The same people participate on multiple boards, and I never see this exploitation argument brought up then? .


There is so much wrong with the others vloggers that the subject gets missed on other boards since it is assume that all the family channels or parents are exploiting children to some degree. It is brought up rarely from what I have seen and topics changes daily with new vlogs.

I think most feel Bonnie and Joel are the best parents of the group you are thinking about on multiple boards.
I just think all of these parent YTers need to be more cautious with their spending. Yes, $400K or $600K a year is good money - about what a doctor or lawyer makes - but they are YTers! That type of money isn't going to be rolling in more than 5-ish years. Over a lifetime, and with a Mormon-amount of kids, that's not really a lot of money. I hope they are all saving for the KIDS who earned them that money.

At least Joel seems smart. Bonnie seems like an idiot...like her sister.
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