Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9)

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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

tratra58 wrote:I apologize for hijacking the thread with the income topic. I find it interesting to see how this strange occupation provides an extravagant living:) It is just amazing to see such a drop in overall numbers, but not knowing the historical vlogging channel income revenue nature of YouTube, I don't know if this is a fluke or a change for YouTube family channels. If adults have a short attention span, I tend to think kids who were becoming more of the YouTube viewers are even shorter, so this could be a risky business.
It would be unrealistic for any Vlogger to expect to have a long-term life on YT. How interesting will vlogs be when the kids are all school age, and the parents boring and in their mid 30s/early 40s? I can't think of
any successful family vloggers ATM that fit that description. Possibly Ruby?....
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by tratra58 »

HelloSweetie wrote:
tratra58 wrote:I apologize for hijacking the thread with the income topic. I find it interesting to see how this strange occupation provides an extravagant living:) It is just amazing to see such a drop in overall numbers, but not knowing the historical vlogging channel income revenue nature of YouTube, I don't know if this is a fluke or a change for YouTube family channels. If adults have a short attention span, I tend to think kids who were becoming more of the YouTube viewers are even shorter, so this could be a risky business.
It would be unrealistic for any Vlogger to expect to have a long-term life on YT. How interesting will vlogs be when the kids are all school age, and the parents boring and in their mid 30s/early 40s? I can't think of
any successful family vloggers ATM that fit that description. Possibly Ruby?....
I agree. I guess time will tell. I also wonder if the numbers that are provided by Social Blade might have a glitch or be wrong. If they were true, I would think you would see some panicking vloggers and that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by RecklessDisregard »

tratra58 wrote:Just a quick note, I think something is off with Cullen and Katie's numbers or they are doing better than what is reflected on monthly revenue. They have more than thirty thousand views on their daily vlogs and Social Blade said they have had 367,422 views last thirty days - down 95%

So I think the VidIQ monthly revenue is too low for them. However this is the estimate yearly income from Social Blade --> $1.1K - $17.6K ESTIMATED YEARLY EARNINGS

There is no way they are living off this?
Yes, something is definitely off with the numbers for lower performing channels. I keep thinking about the YT algorithm change, in which the number of "Likes" a video earns within a short time after it's posted is now determining the extent to which the video is then promoted on the "Recommended Viewing" sidebar. So two things are happening: 1) A low percentage of subscribers are actually watching each day's vlog, leading to 2) Fewer people overall are getting exposed to the channel's content. Those two factors combine to equal a death spiral for smaller channels that might have actually been living comfortably before. The benefit obviously goes to larger channels whose audiences don't mind being cajoled to Like, comment, etc (every day), and the system is disproportionately harmful to smaller channels.

Of course, this doesn't fully explain why SB would estimate such low earnings, because if the vlogs are being viewed, then the vloggers are earning *something.* It does seem that there is a threshold (likely more than one) in the algorithm for disproportionate earning. Let's say Channel A averages 30k views per day, Channel B averages 90k views per day, and Channel C averages 270k views per day. The percentages don't appear to line up... We would expect Channel B to earn 3x the income of Channel A, and Channel C to earn 9x the income of Channel A and 3x the income of B. I think that's not happening, in part due to fairly recent changes, which makes it incredibly difficult for a third party like SB to give realistic estimates during a time when YouTube is quietly changing the way the game is played. Others have said SB could be glitching, and I agree the estimated income for C&K/M&E can't be correct. I would expect to see different estimates a month or two from now.

I also have a strong suspicion that unconventional ad revenue (such as product placement) is changing the way YouTubers earn and disclose income, which is bound to result in discrepancies between the income YTers are earning and what third parties estimate they are earning. This insiduous new advertising is more sophisticated, outsiders don't really know the details (nor do the viewers), and this lack of transparency works in the content creators' favor. Ever wonder why vloggers just LOVE Nest security cameras? Sure, it's #notsponsored, but nonetheless we have all heard the Nest system mentioned quite a lot lately, and seen it demonstrated too. I think it's a new form of brand deal, and it's poised to become a more profitable revenue source than AdSense while also probably providing a much higher quality of "native" marketing for the brands themselves.

I probably did go overboard in a previous post with the assumption that views are down because people are tired of watching vloggers spend money and overhype minor activities. That's definitely my perspective, but I agree that the many kids who watch are not likely concerned with such factors.

If the numbers are anywhere near being real, though, I agree Bonnie and Joel are in a much better position to weather this particular storm than the other vloggers we have discussed.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by tratra58 »

The kids are really getting good at skiing. As an oldest, I found Joel annoying teaching his older brother skiing lol. I am sure Joel enjoyed this know-it-all role.
I also would like to learn to love cleaning like Bonnie.



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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by lmmomSD »

tratra58 wrote:The kids are really getting good at skiing. As an oldest, I found Joel annoying teaching his older brother skiing lol. I am sure Joel enjoyed this know-it-all role. Image
I also would like to learn to love cleaning like Bonnie.



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I feel ya! I like having a clean house, but the process of getting there? Not one bit.

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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by perctpiper »

There was a huge glitch that caused many YouTubers to lose views and subscribers for one day. They were reinstated the next day, but it didn't erase the negatives for the monthly stats since the error was fixed a full day later. That's why the numbers are so far off.


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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by thenightowl »

lmmomSD wrote:
tratra58 wrote:The kids are really getting good at skiing. As an oldest, I found Joel annoying teaching his older brother skiing lol. I am sure Joel enjoyed this know-it-all role. Image
I also would like to learn to love cleaning like Bonnie.



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I feel ya! I like having a clean house, but the process of getting there? Not one bit.

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I enjoy cleaning most things, certain things I absolutely hate though (the bathtub/shower) and I hate putting laundry away but I love to vacuum and clean floors for some reason.
The kids are really good at skiing, is that Shay's ski resort place?
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by natalka81 »

tratra58 wrote:The kids are really getting good at skiing. As an oldest, I found Joel annoying teaching his older brother skiing lol. I am sure Joel enjoyed this know-it-all role. Image
I also would like to learn to love cleaning like Bonnie.



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I agree that they're getting really good at skiing, and although I don't have siblings, I also thought that I would be very annoyed as the older brother in this situation. I do think, as several people noted in the comments section, that they should be wearing helmets on the ski hill, but I looked and noticed that no one is wearing them- at least that I can tell- so it might be hard to make that happen...

I also find the whole conversation about the way reality kind of changes when you're vlogging very interesting. I think that if you're just looking for a great moment to film, or if you're manipulating your moments for the purpose of filming, it can alter your life experiences significantly. It may be weird but my favourite photos are always ones that are taken when people aren't looking, aren't posing, aren't really DOING anything, but that tell a story nonetheless. When I'm at an event like a graduation or a birthday party or something I often don't even want to bring my camera because I'm worried I'll spend the whole time trying to find the right shot rather than just enjoying the day. I can't imagine every single day (or indeed every single hour of every single day) being about how to capture it on camera or film...
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by tratra58 »

natalka81 wrote:
tratra58 wrote:The kids are really getting good at skiing. As an oldest, I found Joel annoying teaching his older brother skiing lol. I am sure Joel enjoyed this know-it-all role. Image
I also would like to learn to love cleaning like Bonnie.



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I agree that they're getting really good at skiing, and although I don't have siblings, I also thought that I would be very annoyed as the older brother in this situation. I do think, as several people noted in the comments section, that they should be wearing helmets on the ski hill, but I looked and noticed that no one is wearing them- at least that I can tell- so it might be hard to make that happen...

I also find the whole conversation about the way reality kind of changes when you're vlogging very interesting. I think that if you're just looking for a great moment to film, or if you're manipulating your moments for the purpose of filming, it can alter your life experiences significantly. It may be weird but my favourite photos are always ones that are taken when people aren't looking, aren't posing, aren't really DOING anything, but that tell a story nonetheless. When I'm at an event like a graduation or a birthday party or something I often don't even want to bring my camera because I'm worried I'll spend the whole time trying to find the right shot rather than just enjoying the day. I can't imagine every single day (or indeed every single hour of every single day) being about how to capture it on camera or film...
Utah doesn't mandate use of helmets with skiing and there has been legislation attempting to change this. However, you likely don't have a recourse if you are injured without a helmet with suing or you do so at your own risk. My concern with this latest ski outing is the kids skiing through the wooded area even though it was at the bottom of the hill. It doesn't take much speed hitting into a tree to cause a head injury. I don't think anyone would argue the Hoelleins lack of safety is above normal or pretty bad when it comes to car seats, bike helmets, ATV helmets, and skiing helmets. Utah is a big recreational state and I think this is just the norm, but it is all fun and games until someone gets hurt or even worst.

I suppose if filming is putting the food on the table, the trade off is you don't live fully in the moment...choices choices.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by JM16Canada »

I only started watching Bonnie and Joel about a month ago, started with DB a few months ago which led me to E&J then B&J. I do have to say I find them refreshing, Bonnie can be annoying sometimes (and very like Ellie) but I find their parenting and interactions with the kids so real and genuine. Joel really stands out to me as a Dad who LOVES being a Dad and a husband. The kids have cute personalities, and don't seem to have been "ruined" by the vlogging life (and I hope they never are). I really hope if they do get lots more subscribers and money, they stay true to themselves. Just thought I would share my thoughts as a newbie to vloggers and YTMD!
I do get annoyed at their seemingly nonchalant attitude towards safety (car seats, helmets, climbing on counters etc.) but that seems to be all the Vloggers I have seen so far.
I have a question; do they ever show where Boston and Cody sleep? I only seem to see the babies room, the kitchen/ living area, and the main rec room in the basement.


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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

JM16Canada wrote:I only started watching Bonnie and Joel about a month ago, started with DB a few months ago which led me to E&J then B&J. I do have to say I find them refreshing, Bonnie can be annoying sometimes (and very like Ellie) but I find their parenting and interactions with the kids so real and genuine. Joel really stands out to me as a Dad who LOVES being a Dad and a husband. The kids have cute personalities, and don't seem to have been "ruined" by the vlogging life (and I hope they never are). I really hope if they do get lots more subscribers and money, they stay true to themselves. Just thought I would share my thoughts as a newbie to vloggers and YTMD!
I do get annoyed at their seemingly nonchalant attitude towards safety (car seats, helmets, climbing on counters etc.) but that seems to be all the Vloggers I have seen so far.
I have a question; do they ever show where Boston and Cody sleep? I only seem to see the babies room, the kitchen/ living area, and the main rec room in the basement.


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The boys share a bedroom downstairs next to Olivia's room. They show it from time to time, mostly at bedtime. The boys tend to play in the rec room, unlike Olivia who we often see playing in her bedroom.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by lmmomSD »

Wow, I never noticed that! I have seen Olivia's room and Lincoln's, and of course Bonnie and Joel's, but not Boston and Cody's..
I don't _think_ the ski resort is Shay's. I think there are closer ones. His is outside Pocatello, so it's a good hour and a half away.

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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by Boredomatitsfinest »

HelloSweetie wrote:
It would be unrealistic for any Vlogger to expect to have a long-term life on YT. How interesting will vlogs be when the kids are all school age, and the parents boring and in their mid 30s/early 40s? I can't think of
any successful family vloggers ATM that fit that description. Possibly Ruby?....
Keyword being "successful", lol. JKToday came to mind immediately before I realized you said successful vloggers...so, that kind of speaks for itself.

I wouldn't even count Ruby though because she still has little ones. I started to think of the Butler families as well, but again, they have the contrast of younger and older kids (and.....we all know how that story is going as of late anyway....lol).

*Completely irrelevant, but I'm laughing a little in my head as I post this because it feels like mentioning Shay/the Butlers these days is like bringing up he who shall not be named, I mean, Voldemort's name. Lmao*
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by RecklessDisregard »

Yeah, Cody and Boston share a bedroom in the basement. It's very basic, just bunk beds and a smaller toddler-type bed. I think they got a rug for Christmas that is meant to play with toy cars on. Olivia has a bedroom down there as well. Hers is somewhat more of a living space for a child, as opposed to just a sleeping space.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by Vincere »

From Social Blade on how they calculate the revenue:
Estimated earnings are just that, estimated. We take a low CPM value ($0.25 USD) and a high CPM value ($4.00 USD), numbers that we have found to be common from our partners, and multiply them by the number of views the channel gets per day [1].
That is an extremely naive way to do it.

Issues with that calculation.
TL:DR- It assumes that every view makes money which is wrong for the reasons stated below.

1. According to a new IAB report, 26 percent of desktop users and 15 percent of mobile consumers use blockers to remove ads from publishers' websites[2].
So you can almost take 1/4 of that revenue off, and even without adblock not all will be monetised anyway.

2. The price of adds varies since the way you buy Google/YT ads is through bids, where you put a price for your add, so it that could really range and it would make big channel get ads with a higher bid price.

From Google Ad Words Support [3], that's where you buy ads that will show on the YT videos.
" you'll pay a maximum of £0.25 when someone clicks on a video ad thumbnail or title and begins watching your video."
" you'll pay a maximum of £0.25 when someone watches 30 seconds of your video (or the duration if it's shorter than 30 seconds) or engages with an interactive element, whichever comes first. Interactive elements include call-to-action overlays (CTAs), cards, companion banners and links to your site or mobile app.
Notice you'll pay when someone clicks, watches 30 seconds, engages with the interactive element.
How many of you watch that full 30 seconds video or click on it?
This drastically reduces the money that the video will generate when it shows the add.

3. Advertising is a seasonal market, expect more adds, higher bids during Christmas, so to have a flat rate throughout the year is exaggerated.

4. They get paid if the ads only shows and if the users does not engages with the add, but those are small sums calculated x1000 views, I guess for millions of views a nice amount adds.

5. The add prices go down. More people offering the same service (show ads) drives down the price to show an add.
"Kay likely gets about $7.60 per 1,000 ad views, down from $9.35 in 2012, according to TubeMogul, which buys and sells video ads."[4]
Note, the article was from 2014, so two/three years later the prices might be even lower + higher penetration of adBlock. (USE IT)

6. Social Blade does not include TAXES.
"Roughly, a video creator will earn $2,000 for every million views. "And then YouTube takes 45 percent," the Times notes. (The IRS will take its cut of the remainder, too.)" [4]
"In other words, Kay is probably getting by on less than 50% of what her videos make in gross revenue. In a $100,000 year, she might be looking at $21,000 annually, after YouTube's cut, taxes and editing costs, according to our back-of the-envelope math ($100,000 minus $45,000 for YouTube, minus editing costs at $500 per week for 50 weeks, minus 30% for the IRS)." [4]
Also, networks' share.

But how does Ellie reach to 50k/month?
She is such a clever genius that she willingly put the information there so we will go mad while she eats popcorn and laugh so hard she pees her bed reading this site, and you know she will not change the sheets.

We don't know for sure that was a general monthly budget or was just a good month's.
I remember in december they had a lot of sponsored videos.
If they put items in descriptions most likely those are affiliated links where they get a percentage of the total, I am pretty sure Bonnie does that.
From a random Bonnie video, in the description
Vlogging Camera: http://amzn.to/1U02WIf
Beauty Camera: http://amzn.to/1TpiTJa
Lighting I use: http://amzn.to/1TkqVj6
All those are affiliated links, apparently they get 10%! [5]

[1] https://socialblade.com/youtube/help/ho ... calculated'
[2] http://www.adweek.com/digital/iab-study ... rs-172665/
[3] https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2472735
[4] http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much ... 014-2?IR=T
[5] https://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/ ... n/landing/

Sorry if I hijacked the thread.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by tratra58 »

[quote="Vincere" But how does Ellie reach to 50k/month? She is such a clever genius that she willingly put the information there so we will go mad while she eats popcorn and laugh so hard she pees her bed reading this site, and you know she will not change the sheets.[/quote]



LOL This had me in tears! She probably still uses her sheets to blow her nose in too.

VidIQ had E+J monthly income at 23,000 a month prior to the glitch with YouTube. 8 Passengers was 32,000 a month. I wonder how accurate they are and what formula they use.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by OldHag »

Aunt Sonya was only 49. The siblings and Jennifer mentioned several times Sonya had a hard life. I wonder what went on, other than a divorce which I guess would be a huge deal in that community. And having to scramble to get trained in a skill so she could support a family.

Someone posted childhood photos on Sonya's obit, and Kate looks very much like her as a small child. And young Jennifer looks SO much like Ellie. A skinnier, less healthy version of Ellie, if that's possible. Big dark circles under her eyes and something about her thin hair made little Jennifer look sickly.
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Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9)

Unread post by HelloSweetie »

OldHag wrote:Aunt Sonya was only 49. The siblings and Jennifer mentioned several times Sonya had a hard life. I wonder what went on, other than a divorce which I guess would be a huge deal in that community. And having to scramble to get trained in a skill so she could support a family.

Someone posted childhood photos on Sonya's obit, and Kate looks very much like her as a small child. And young Jennifer looks SO much like Ellie. A skinnier, less healthy version of Ellie, if that's possible. Big dark circles under her eyes and something about her thin hair made little Jennifer look sickly.
The Griffiths use "hard life" loosely.

Calvin has been described as having a hard first year and a half.
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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by lmmomSD »

HelloSweetie wrote:
OldHag wrote:Aunt Sonya was only 49. The siblings and Jennifer mentioned several times Sonya had a hard life. I wonder what went on, other than a divorce which I guess would be a huge deal in that community. And having to scramble to get trained in a skill so she could support a family.

Someone posted childhood photos on Sonya's obit, and Kate looks very much like her as a small child. And young Jennifer looks SO much like Ellie. A skinnier, less healthy version of Ellie, if that's possible. Big dark circles under her eyes and something about her thin hair made little Jennifer look sickly.
The Griffiths use "hard life" loosely.

Calvin has been described as having a hard first year and a half.
It's a hard knock life!

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Re: Bonnie and Joel: Not Every Day Is A Rational Day (Part 9

Unread post by chipmunks »

Did I miss something or was there a lack of boston in yesterday's video?


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