John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)

[jesswhytho]

Hm that's odd she hasn't accepted me for some reason

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[blahblahblahhh]

I don't think Joan would ever want anything other than a biological child. A foster child would be the worst for her, in my opinion. It would be an older (most likely atleast a few months old, if not a toddler), non biological, imperfect (of course all children are but in her eyes Maeve was perfect) child who may push away from her strongly for weeks or longer, and that she would have to give up eventually. I don't see her being the type that would strongly connect in that situation, but then if she did it would be even worse when she had to give him/her back. She would be traumatized all over again.


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[Nothankyou]

The whole creating an identity for Maeve is very strange to me. By the way she talks about her, it's like she "knows" her, if that makes sense. If I just read her posts without knowing the story I would assume she lost a toddler, not a newborn. Absolutely not comparing them and what she went through is awful and I can't imagine it. But the way she talks about her is so different from any other loss mom I have encountered.


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Yes, it absolutely makes sense. It's like Ellie and Missy, and Carlie Butler and the daughters they _know_ they are going to have. They have this perfect little pink wearing princess on mind. Maeve may have turned out completely different than she imagines. I have never been through this kind of thing, so I don't know-- is that normal to create an identity for a child who didn't live?

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I lost a baby at 23 weeks, and I will say that it is odd to create and identity for them. Not so much their name, or what they acted like in the womb. That's part of what makes pregnancy loss so complex, because you're grieving a person you never really knew. You weren't granted the opportunity to learn their personality and character. It makes the grief different than any other kind because you don't have stories to tell about them or cherished memories with them.


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[lily_moon]

Whoa. I know many women who have had miscarriages, but never have they posted photos of other children depicted what their angel baby would look like "today" That totally creeps me out!


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I agree!!! This is some horror movie stuff !!!


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[hwarner]

Their dog looks pretty old. What's gonna happen when she passes?


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[HelloSweetie]

Their dog looks pretty old. What's gonna happen when she passes?


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Louise? They just got her within the last year as a puppy.

They have actually had two dogs and a cat pass away after Maeve already.

[hwarner]

Wow really? It looks really old lol. I knew they just got her after Maeve but I didn't know she was a puppy


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[Scar2016]

I can't remember if it's been discussed or not but is Louise a bona fide therapy dog? Joan's wrote an IG post yesterday saying Louise is one years old today and that they got her last August, so she was between 3 and 4 months old when they got her. Is it possible for a therapy dog to be fully trained and registered by such a young age?

I know this was discussed on Steps To Wander's thread that theirs isn't a registered therapy dog despite them saying it is and taking it into shops and restaurants etc.

[HelloSweetie]

I can't remember if it's been discussed or not but is Louise a bona fide therapy dog? Joan's wrote an IG post yesterday saying Louise is one years old today and that they got her last August, so she was between 3 and 4 months old when they got her. Is it possible for a therapy dog to be fully trained and registered by such a young age?

I know this was discussed on Steps To Wander's thread that theirs isn't a registered therapy dog despite them saying it is and taking it into shops and restaurants etc.

She referred to the dog she had when Maeve died as her "therapy dog" too. When she got Maeve she uneducated got started posting and calling her the same. She finds comfort in Louise, but no, she isn't any different than any other dog. They got her from a rescue shelter when she was a puppy.

[HelloSweetie]

^ that was supposed to read "immediately began" calling the dog the same. I went back to look and try to find the posts where I saw it, but there are just too many to go through .

[Scar2016]

I can't remember if it's been discussed or not but is Louise a bona fide therapy dog? Joan's wrote an IG post yesterday saying Louise is one years old today and that they got her last August, so she was between 3 and 4 months old when they got her. Is it possible for a therapy dog to be fully trained and registered by such a young age?

I know this was discussed on Steps To Wander's thread that theirs isn't a registered therapy dog despite them saying it is and taking it into shops and restaurants etc.

She referred to the dog she had when Maeve died as her "therapy dog" too. When she got Maeve she uneducated got started posting and calling her the same. She finds comfort in Louise, but no, she isn't any different than any other dog. They got her from a rescue shelter when she was a puppy.

In that case her workplace is being very accommodating. I'm not sure how many any other loss mothers would be able to bring their pet to work with them every day. And it's just another not_quite_the_truth thing about her/them. To put it more succinctly, totally untrue.

I'm sort of getting to the point that I don't know how much or what to believe anymore.

[RootBeerFloatie]

My dog brings me immense joy and comfort, but I wouldn't call him a therapy dog, and I wouldn't try to bring him out in public with me. Joan is very lucky that she has such an understanding employer, who allows her to bring her dog to work, and presumably also miss a lot of days due to grief. I think that calling her puppy a "therapy" dog is another way in which she's twisted her narrative for sympathy. Let's take the scenario she's crafted, for example: Due to the gross negligence and inappropriate behavior of a midwife, this loving couple lost their otherwise healthy and perfect baby before she was even born. The midwife was stripped of her credentials and left to pay their medical bills, and of course that can't bring back their child, but at least justice was served for her incredible incompetence. The grief is so strong that she is issued a therapy dog for PTSD, and often breaks down and cries thinking about their stillborn child, whom they treasure photos of and try to honor daily. Now they're on a tragic journey of infertility, trying to have the baby that they so desperately want and deserve, and your gofundme donation can help that dream become a reality.

Now let's compare that to the real story: A pair of recovering addicts living with their parents, with on and off employment, tragically conceive a child with a growth impairment, possibly due to a deformity in the placenta. The midwife fails to address many of their concerns, and despite being worried for the well-being of their child and questioning some of her advice, they do not seek a second opinion. It turns out that there was a problem, and unfortunately the baby passed before anyone realized it, though there may not have been anything that anyone could have done even if they had caught it in time. They deliver their stillborn daughter, and begin to raise money on at least two different fundraising campaigns. A lawyer says that the midwife was not responsible for the loss of their daughter, and she continues to practice with no strikes on her record. The mother starts bringing her dog to work claiming that it's a PTSD dog, and posting her grief daily on social media. She starts a few more go fund me accounts, one for a book that she never writes, and another for a round of IVF even though she wins a contest that covers some of the expenses. Throughout her pregnancy and even after having a miscarriage, she is still focused on her stillbirth instead of the new child that she lost. Now you can help add to the $21k+ that the death of their daughter has brought to them, as they continue to live with their parents, and the father continues not to work. Donate today!

And that's exactly why they're lying about everything, because which story sounds better to you?

[usernamessuck]

Even if it is a therapy dog, therapy animals do not have public access. Only service dogs have public access. If she has ptsd, she should look into getting (or training louise to be) a service dog. Then she could have more help than she already does.

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[fossilfinger]

Even if it is a therapy dog, therapy animals do not have public access. Only service dogs have public access. If she has ptsd, she should look into getting (or training louise to be) a service dog. Then she could have more help than she already does.

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Can you explain what a service dog would do if its owner doesn't have any physical disabilities?

[usernamessuck]

They do deep pressure therapy to keep their owner from spiraling into an anxiety/panic attack. They have ptsd service dogs (wounded warrior trains a lot for vets). They may also wake them up from nightmares or calm them down by alerting them in stressful situations. I have seen service dogs nip at owners who were becoming too anxious to keep them grounded. I have been following a lot of service dog vlogs because i am thinking of training a dog in the future. They can do some amazing things.

I want to add: dpt requires a big dog (so louise probably wouldnt qualify). The dog basically lays on top of the owner to keep them grounded.

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[usernamessuck]

Here is a video that goes into different support animals. Basically, a therapy dog is supposed to go into hospitals or nursing homes or colleges during finals (lol) to provide therapy to people during stressful or difficult times. They require training, and they do some amazing work, but you cant bring them with you to the store.

Emotional support animals could be anything (cat, rabbit, hedgehog) that provides emotional support to someone who may struggle with mental disorders like anxiety or depression (ptsd is a little different because triggers are hard to avoid and people have flashbacks....i am not an expert on ptsd though). I have mainly seen these used by people in no pet housing to move in with their pets. (Not to say there are not people in normal pet friendly housing that have these) They dont require any training, but they do require a doctor's note. Again....not allowed in public.

Service dogs offer a service to their owner (seizure alert, diabetes alert, dpt). They are highly trained and low-tempered. Owners can train their own dogs, and they are allowed anywhere the public can go. They are essentially medical equipment (like an oxygen tank that needs to be fed and cared for).

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[Scar2016]

And that's exactly why they're lying about everything, because which story sounds better to you?

Here's the question: Where does their intent lie? Is the first scenario (and the one they present to the world) done benevolently and without calculation, despite the fact it is still totally questionable; or is there more to their rhetoric and these untruths beneath the surface?

[HelloSweetie]

The service Lemmy (and now Louise) provides seems to be similar to that of a reborn doll. She wraps her up and babies her. Lays with her and snuggles. It doesn't seem to be anything she would require a service dog for.

Of all the IG pics we haven't seen one of her actually at her therapists. No recent mention of one from what I can see. Do we even know for a fact that Joan has been diagnosed with PTSD?

[usernamessuck]

The service Lemmy (and now Louise) provides seems to be similar to that of a reborn doll. She wraps her up and babies her. Lays with her and snuggles. It doesn't seem to be anything she would require a service dog for.

Of all the IG pics we haven't seen one of her actually at her therapists. No recent mention of one from what I can see. Do we even know for a fact that Joan has been diagnosed with PTSD?

That's why i would put Louise in the emotional support animal category. She provides emotional support for her owner. She does not perfom therapy work, and she doesnt provide a service for her owner (beside emotional support of course). She also has no training (from what we can see). Joan seems to have a low-tempered dog that no one calls her out on.
She needs to talk with her therapist if she really thinks she needs a service dog. I side-eye anyone who tries to pass off their non-service dog in public spaces because service dog owners already get enough flack without people abusing the system.

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[Scar2016]

^ Lol. I was debating posting for the last two days about Joan considering getting herself a reborn doll. I even googled red headed toddler girl reborn's, because she seems intent on having herself and her IG followers believe she_has_a_toddler. I think you can even commission a reborn artist/maker to make one in a likeness to a specific image. The only reason I held back from posting this is because I wonder if it would make Joan jump deeper down the rabbit hole of denial, if that is even what it is she's going through.