John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
I was defending Joan earlier and I do wish her the best and feel so bad for her. But you guys are right, the more I see in her IG the more I see that she isn't helping herself at all. She isn't allowing herself to be happy. We already know she had addictions in the past I wonder now if this trauma has gotten her addicted to grieving, addicted to the sympathy and attention. Kind of like a personality disorder, they are their own worst enemy- sabotaging themselves and other relationships. Not allowing any good things happen, preservation and preoccupied thought process on grief and sad emotions, addicted to being a victim, the attention and so on.
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John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
On a recent post she mentioned being given an induction date, and that they "finally realized she was small"...apparently she died three days before her induction date. That doesn't really seem to jive with Joan's story that everyone was saying nothing was wrong and to stop worrying...maybe all those extra appointments she talked about where her concerns were dismissed were crammed into one week?
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
Interesting. You're right, previously she made it sound like she kept telling the midwife that something was wrong (but not seeking actual medical opinions) but her concerns were dismissed, and it wasn't until Maeve died that they actually took her seriously. Now it seems like they were very much aware of the growth restriction, and were going to induce her early to give the baby a chance of survival, but there just wasn't enough time. That's probably what actually happened, given the lawyer's advice that there was no way to prove that the midwife was responsible for Maeve's death. Just another tally to add to all of the strange, mixed up stories she's told.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
And the way she acts as if (at least in her posts) that you can only appreciate life if you have gone through what she did. Nobody appreciates life like she does! Or grieves like she does...HelloSweetie wrote:Joan strikes me as the "chronic victim" type. We have no way to know if the midwife even did anything wrong. It's possible Joan was anxious from the start, and that the midwife had no reason to believe that these latest concerns were any more valid than the ones before. Joan was so sure there was a problem, yet never once asked to go see one of the medical doctors the clinic works with?RootBeerFloatie wrote:The midwife no longer works at that facility, so no one knows if she was fired or if she just quit. But there are no disciplinary actions on her record, and their court case was dismissed due to lack of evidence. So it is possible that the clinic let her go, but no proof either way, and Joan has lied about the case in the past.Snow White wrote:She's posting that Maeve's midwife was fired, was it said here that was not the case?
How ironic that she decided to mess with the mama Robin's babies. You'd think she'd be more sympathetic in a way. She really strikes me as thinking the world owes her something. She needs intensive therapy, not another round of IVF.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
The other day on one of her posts someone had commented how they had lost their 4 year old, and Joan went on to respond with something about how they were lucky to have had 4 years with their child and that she wishes she even got one day with Maeve. I get it. It fucking sucks. But I cannot stand the pain monopoly! Having any amount of time with your child does not mean it hurts less or that you have it waaaaayyyyyy worse because you didn't get 4 years with your baby. In fact, Joan, I'm willing to say that it hurts worse. That mama got to know her child, and while it breaks my heart that you didn't get to know Maeve, that mama knew her child as the two year old you make up in your head every day thinking that's who Maeve would have been. They had 4 years of that little one's life taken from them in an instant. Loss hurts. You have every right to hurt. You do not, however, have the right to tell people they should hurt less than you do because they got more time with their child than you did.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
i saw her comment that! i was a little shocked and immediately felt bad for the woman she said it to, hoping it didn't make her feel horrible. i can't imagine saying something like that to somebody :/babymakemecrazy wrote:The other day on one of her posts someone had commented how they had lost their 4 year old, and Joan went on to respond with something about how they were lucky to have had 4 years with their child and that she wishes she even got one day with Maeve. I get it. It fucking sucks. But I cannot stand the pain monopoly! Having any amount of time with your child does not mean it hurts less or that you have it waaaaayyyyyy worse because you didn't get 4 years with your baby. In fact, Joan, I'm willing to say that it hurts worse. That mama got to know her child, and while it breaks my heart that you didn't get to know Maeve, that mama knew her child as the two year old you make up in your head every day thinking that's who Maeve would have been. They had 4 years of that little one's life taken from them in an instant. Loss hurts. You have every right to hurt. You do not, however, have the right to tell people they should hurt less than you do because they got more time with their child than you did.
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John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
I follow her on IG and every single day I see a post from her, pregnant or of Maeve or of grief, it's getting really hard for to follow her. Because each day I'm hoping to see something happy from her, but it's not, it's repeat day after day. Sadness after sadness. She just doesn't seem to be getting better. Rolling up on two years and it still feels fresh to her. Maeve dying is devastating. But I don't think it's healthy to constantly post every day for two years about your pregnancy loss I feel so bad for her. She needs help.
I can't imagine talking about the baby we lost for two years straight, how much could you possibly say about your stillborn baby? You didn't get any time with her, that's sad yes but is it really healthy ? I wonder how their days are? They wake up and talk about her?
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I can't imagine talking about the baby we lost for two years straight, how much could you possibly say about your stillborn baby? You didn't get any time with her, that's sad yes but is it really healthy ? I wonder how their days are? They wake up and talk about her?
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
That is awful of her to say that to that poor woman. I'm a mom of 3 and while I absolutely cannot imagine the heartbreak of a stillbirth (I have had miscarriages but would never ever compare them to a stillbirth), I feel like saying it's worse than losing a young child is horrible. I would be devastated after a stillbirth. I would need some serious help, no doubt. But the thought of losing my 6, 4, or 2 year old literally makes me want to throw up. I don't know if I would be able to continue on. For her to basically say that she would've rather lost Maeve at 4 years old than for her to be stillborn really shows her mental state and lack of compassion for anyone other than herself.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
In one of her recent posts she said (to Maeve) ''I promise to live a life you'd be proud of.'' I'm not sure Maeve would be proud thus far because Joan doesn't appear to be living or having a life - at least not in the present; she's still firmly living in the past. I'm pretty sure even Maeve would have wanted her to begin moving on by now, or at least seek better/additional help.minmouse wrote:I agree that her reluctance to move on is because she feels that means she doesn't love Maeve anymore. Like the only way to love and honor her is to wallow in never-ending sadness. It really is awful to see that no one is helping her move on from her grief. She is going to have a very long, unhappy life if she continues on like this.
I remember she mentioned that she has only the 20-something pictures but she's learned to crop or zoom in on small aspects of them for new,different pictures. I haven't paid enough attention to know if thia is true or not. Her version of things does change so who knows.
Ref Joan's version of things, in another recent post her sister told her she'd never gotten to hold Maeve and Joans reply was ''In my head you were there and you got to hold her.''
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
Maybe she thinks Maeve is proud of her posting about her every day? I think Maeve wants to you move forward and live for day not for yesterday. Maeve wants you to enjoy life. To be happy, to be healthy. Not only for yourself but for your marriage and future children. I do not think she is mentally ready for children that my opinion thoScar2016 wrote:In one of her recent posts she said (to Maeve) ''I promise to live a life you'd be proud of.'' I'm not sure Maeve would be proud thus far because Joan doesn't appear to be living or having a life - at least not in the present; she's still firmly living in the past. I'm pretty sure even Maeve would have wanted her to begin moving on by now, or at least seek better/additional help.minmouse wrote:I agree that her reluctance to move on is because she feels that means she doesn't love Maeve anymore. Like the only way to love and honor her is to wallow in never-ending sadness. It really is awful to see that no one is helping her move on from her grief. She is going to have a very long, unhappy life if she continues on like this.
I remember she mentioned that she has only the 20-something pictures but she's learned to crop or zoom in on small aspects of them for new,different pictures. I haven't paid enough attention to know if thia is true or not. Her version of things does change so who knows.
Ref Joan's version of things, in another recent post her sister told her she'd never gotten to hold Maeve and Joans reply was ''In my head you were there and you got to hold her.''
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
I have unfortunately been a part of the loss community on Instagram for about three years now. I've seen a lot of messed up crap, such as a girl who got pregnant, miscarried "twins" and kept the "remains" in a small jar... Even so far as to post pictures of said remains. I've seen too many pictures of tiny babies, and a lot of those remains. It breaks my heart, but there is this belief in the loss community that you almost can't move past your grief or else you do a disservice. Another girl has a bear with a letter to her baby in it, and has a shrine of all the items that remind her of her baby. He was a first trimester loss, quite a few years ago, and she posts stickers in public places (like vandalism) with her IG handle and saying things like "1 in 4 mothers lose their child. I am one, are you?"
Just saying that Joan's "monogamy on pain/grief) is sadly normal for the loss community there.
That being said, she probably does feel quite enabled, especially if she follows those girls.
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Just saying that Joan's "monogamy on pain/grief) is sadly normal for the loss community there.
That being said, she probably does feel quite enabled, especially if she follows those girls.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
I was thinking this too. That she believes that if she stops grieving actively, that she's somehow loving Maeve less or dishonoring her memory. Grief doesn't work like that. She's stuck in the "anger" stage, it seems. She's nowhere near acceptance! It's not the same, but I lost both my parents. If I posted on Instagram every day for two years about how sad I was and was dismissive of other people's pain, I don't think that would make them proud. Grief is grief. Yes, losing a child is exceptionally awful, but grieving over a parent or even a pet is still grief. This comparing pain is not healthy. Or nice. To tell someone who's lost someone, anyone they love, that their pain couldn't possibly be as bad as yours is just mean.Amelia322 wrote:Maybe she thinks Maeve is proud of her posting about her every day? I think Maeve wants to you move forward and live for day not for yesterday. Maeve wants you to enjoy life. To be happy, to be healthy. Not only for yourself but for your marriage and future children. I do not think she is mentally ready for children that my opinion thoScar2016 wrote:In one of her recent posts she said (to Maeve) ''I promise to live a life you'd be proud of.'' I'm not sure Maeve would be proud thus far because Joan doesn't appear to be living or having a life - at least not in the present; she's still firmly living in the past. I'm pretty sure even Maeve would have wanted her to begin moving on by now, or at least seek better/additional help.minmouse wrote:I agree that her reluctance to move on is because she feels that means she doesn't love Maeve anymore. Like the only way to love and honor her is to wallow in never-ending sadness. It really is awful to see that no one is helping her move on from her grief. She is going to have a very long, unhappy life if she continues on like this.
I remember she mentioned that she has only the 20-something pictures but she's learned to crop or zoom in on small aspects of them for new,different pictures. I haven't paid enough attention to know if thia is true or not. Her version of things does change so who knows.
Ref Joan's version of things, in another recent post her sister told her she'd never gotten to hold Maeve and Joans reply was ''In my head you were there and you got to hold her.''
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No, I don't think Maeve is proud. I think that wherever she is, she wants her mama to be happy and move on.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
If Joan were in a more stable place herself, she could honor Maeve's memory by counseling new loss parents. It would be a healthier way to channel her grief.
That's a big IF.
I know it's impossible to just snap out of grief and depression, but Joan is clinging to a harmful narrative that she could intentionally work on changing. It seems she is just not willing to put the effort in.
Weren't she and John supposed to go on a retreat this summer?
That's a big IF.
I know it's impossible to just snap out of grief and depression, but Joan is clinging to a harmful narrative that she could intentionally work on changing. It seems she is just not willing to put the effort in.
Weren't she and John supposed to go on a retreat this summer?
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
She won a trip to a retreat for loss moms if I'm not mistaken. Just her, no John.fossilfinger wrote:If Joan were in a more stable place herself, she could honor Maeve's memory by counseling new loss parents. It would be a healthier way to channel her grief.
That's a big IF.
I know it's impossible to just snap out of grief and depression, but Joan is clinging to a harmful narrative that she could intentionally work on changing. It seems she is just not willing to put the effort in.
Weren't she and John supposed to go on a retreat this summer?
Although I think it will be good for her, I now think it may be hurtful to the others around her at the retreat. She's been far too enabled this far, and isn't going to be ok without John to help her. She's probably going to expect the other women to cater to her, when they are hurting too.
Plus I get the impression that Joan uses "theatrics" to prove her grief is worse than others. She talks a lot about waking up screaming, and needing John to put all his weight on her until she calms down. I just don't think the other women need intensity like that around them right now.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
"Moved loved sharing a bed with her aunt this week" okay yeah that's weird
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
Wait, what? Did her aunt sleep with her ashes or something? That is bizarre.Amelia322 wrote:"Moved loved sharing a bed with her aunt this week" okay yeah that's weird
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
The mom with the twins are you talking about journeytomommy? She's had like 7 or 8 miscarriages, one of those was twins.galifreyancatlady wrote:I have unfortunately been a part of the loss community on Instagram for about three years now. I've seen a lot of messed up crap, such as a girl who got pregnant, miscarried "twins" and kept the "remains" in a small jar... Even so far as to post pictures of said remains. I've seen too many pictures of tiny babies, and a lot of those remains. It breaks my heart, but there is this belief in the loss community that you almost can't move past your grief or else you do a disservice. Another girl has a bear with a letter to her baby in it, and has a shrine of all the items that remind her of her baby. He was a first trimester loss, quite a few years ago, and she posts stickers in public places (like vandalism) with her IG handle and saying things like "1 in 4 mothers lose their child. I am one, are you?"
Just saying that Joan's "monogamy on pain/grief) is sadly normal for the loss community there.
That being said, she probably does feel quite enabled, especially if she follows those girls.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
Wow... That's just another level of heartless and inappropriate. That's plain cruel. You'd think she'd have more empathy, not less.babymakemecrazy wrote:The other day on one of her posts someone had commented how they had lost their 4 year old, and Joan went on to respond with something about how they were lucky to have had 4 years with their child and that she wishes she even got one day with Maeve.
I will admit to having similar thoughts when a relative's mother died a year after mine, but her mother was 20 years older than mine (and relative was 20 years older than me,). She sent me a message about how she could understand what I'd been through now, and the thought did run in my head "no you don't, you got 20 more years with your mother than I did. Your mother got to see her grandchildren grow and mine didn't."
But I WOULD NEVER ever have said that. Because I know that is my grief talking not my heart. And there is no contest, we all lose. I know she was feeling her own grief and I am sad for her, but human nature is that we can truly only feel our own losses the deepest. It doesn't make us terrible.
So of course the loss of Maeve is worse to Joan than that woman's child. But to that woman, the loss of her child is much worse than the loss of Maeve. That is why we should be understanding of others, not compete with them. That woman was attempting to extend understanding and sympathy to Joan, and Joan responded horribly.
I could be understanding if it was more recent but at this point, that response simply makes her appear like a lousy person. And here's the thing, suffering a loss does not make you a saint. Even the shittiest people will have family members die.
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
No, she posted a picture pregnant that said Maeve loved sleeping with her aunt. So Joan and her sis shared a bed and Maeve loved it somehow.lmmomSD wrote:Wait, what? Did her aunt sleep with her ashes or something? That is bizarre.Amelia322 wrote:"Moved loved sharing a bed with her aunt this week" okay yeah that's weird
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Re: John and Joan (IVF grant recipients)
I'm sorry but . She's really doing herself no favors when she assigns these personality traits or preferences to a baby who passed in utero. I wonder if she talked like that the whole time she was pregnant, or if she only started after Maeve passed away.Amelia322 wrote:No, she posted a picture pregnant that said Maeve loved sleeping with her aunt. So Joan and her sis shared a bed and Maeve loved it somehow.lmmomSD wrote:Wait, what? Did her aunt sleep with her ashes or something? That is bizarre.Amelia322 wrote:"Moved loved sharing a bed with her aunt this week" okay yeah that's weird
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