Bonnie Hoellein: A Butt-Squeezing Good Time | Part 12

Unread post by **YTIUH** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:40 am

I bawled during Olivia's baptism in the latest video and I am not even religious. And if I was I wouldn't be a Christian.

I am either PMS-ing or they are a really lovely family. Most likely, it's both

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Unread post by **Caisflame** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:06 am

Oh boy, a whole video based on religious indoctrination. Fun! I generally stay away from these types of videos but Olivia is a sweet child and entertaining too so I'll watch anyway.

Unread post by **whatsbeyond** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:27 am

I liked todays video but I gotta say..what is up with them being so dramatic. "He just won't wear pants today!" and Ellie the other day when Jacksons shoes were too small "He'll just go barefoot at church!" Lol. I am sure you have more than one pair of shoes or one pair of pants for your kids. Maybe not.

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Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:35 am

whatsbeyond wrote:I liked todays video but I gotta say..what is up with them being so dramatic. "He just won't wear pants today!" and Ellie the other day when Jacksons shoes were too small "He'll just go barefoot at church!" Lol. I am sure you have more than one pair of shoes or one pair of pants for your kids. Maybe not.

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I think Bonnie was in crisis mode. I get that. I have a hard enough time dealing with my youngest when I'm trying to focus on something for the oldest, and it gets really frustrating. Like you're torn in two. They probably should have just got a sitter for Linc all morning so she could focus on Olivia, but I get why they would want him there with them.

It's not that Linc doesn't have more than one pair of pants, but he only has the one that matches his brothers'. She was probably thinking of how the family photos won't be what she expected.

Unread post by **whatsbeyond** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:54 am

HelloSweetie wrote:
whatsbeyond wrote:I liked todays video but I gotta say..what is up with them being so dramatic. "He just won't wear pants today!" and Ellie the other day when Jacksons shoes were too small "He'll just go barefoot at church!" Lol. I am sure you have more than one pair of shoes or one pair of pants for your kids. Maybe not.

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I think Bonnie was in crisis mode. I get that. I have a hard enough time dealing with my youngest when I'm trying to focus on something for the oldest, and it gets really frustrating. Like you're torn in two. They probably should have just got a sitter for Linc all morning so she could focus on Olivia, but I get why they would want him there with them.

It's not that Linc doesn't have more than one pair of pants, but he only has the one that matches his brothers'. She was probably thinking of how the family photos won't be what she expected.

So no pants are better than ones that don't match? I don't know if he ever went without, didn't seem to see him until after everything back at home. Either way...I'd just put a different pair of pants on and worry about the mess later. The matching thing is weird too me. Then again I have girl and then a baby 6 years younger, so she would freak if I made her match him. I don't know, I just find them very dramatic over simple, easily fixed things.

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Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:59 am

whatsbeyond wrote:
HelloSweetie wrote:
whatsbeyond wrote:I liked todays video but I gotta say..what is up with them being so dramatic. "He just won't wear pants today!" and Ellie the other day when Jacksons shoes were too small "He'll just go barefoot at church!" Lol. I am sure you have more than one pair of shoes or one pair of pants for your kids. Maybe not.

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I think Bonnie was in crisis mode. I get that. I have a hard enough time dealing with my youngest when I'm trying to focus on something for the oldest, and it gets really frustrating. Like you're torn in two. They probably should have just got a sitter for Linc all morning so she could focus on Olivia, but I get why they would want him there with them.

It's not that Linc doesn't have more than one pair of pants, but he only has the one that matches his brothers'. She was probably thinking of how the family photos won't be what she expected.
So no pants are better than ones that don't match? I don't know if he ever went without, didn't seem to see him until after everything back at home. Either way...I'd just put a different pair of pants on and worry about the mess later. The matching thing is weird too me. Then again I have girl and then a baby 6 years younger, so she would freak if I made her match him. I don't know, I just find them very dramatic over simple, easily fixed things.

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No, I didn't say no pants was better. I was saying why I thought she was saying it as just a part of the morning stress.

No idea if he went without pants or had shorts on. Just saying I could see why in that moment, it might have been an additional source of stress for her.

Unread post by **ewokfan11** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:17 am

I kind of feel bad that they made Olivia say on camera that it was her "choice" to get baptized. It really wasn't. All 8-year-old Mormons get baptized and they are TOO YOUNG to even really understand it and the PRESSURE to do it is insane (from family and the church). Could you imagine how much Bonnie would freak out if Olivia decided to not do it?? Let's be honest, the kids DO NOT have a choice.

Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:27 am

ewokfan11 wrote:I kind of feel bad that they made Olivia say on camera that it was her "choice" to get baptized. It really wasn't. All 8-year-old Mormons get baptized and they are TOO YOUNG to even really understand it and the PRESSURE to do it is insane (from family and the church). Could you imagine how much Bonnie would freak out if Olivia decided to not do it?? Let's be honest, the kids DO NOT have a choice.

But would it really be better to not have the conversation with the child and say they have a choice? This can apply to so many things, not just religion. Olivia didn't seem nervous or anxious about it, and I believe her choice really was to do it. I mean, she did at least have more of a choice than babies having it done for Catholicism. Is that as offensive, or does it get a pass because is a more "conventional" religion? At least expressing the idea that she has a choice, will put her in the mindset that she may not have to do the things going forward. I think it's better to say they have a choice (even if the parent has an obvious preference) than to not say it at all.

I think as parents we have all given our kids a choice about something that they still feel will disappoint us if they makes the wrong decision.

Unread post by **amyfalafal** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:46 pm

I have a hard time nitpicking today at the Lincoln's pants thing, I think everyone was stressed in the morning. Arent we all with those with kids during special days?

I am not mormon but that vlog made me cry in the beginning. Very sweet.

Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:15 pm

ewokfan11 wrote:I kind of feel bad that they made Olivia say on camera that it was her "choice" to get baptized. It really wasn't. All 8-year-old Mormons get baptized and they are TOO YOUNG to even really understand it and the PRESSURE to do it is insane (from family and the church). Could you imagine how much Bonnie would freak out if Olivia decided to not do it?? Let's be honest, the kids DO NOT have a choice.

I thought the same thing.. I thought the whole vlog was very well done until that part. The fact that they felt the need to get Olivia to "clarify" it was her "choice" to get baptized was kinda odd. They were definitely trying to let everyone know she "wasn't forced" into in.. when she basically was expected to do this. You can even see when Bonnie lets the viewers know it was Olivia's choice Olivia herself is a little shocked to hear her say that.. by the face she makes at 7:15. And when they made her to explain why she made that "choice" you can tell Olivia doesn't really know what to say except something I'm sure she's heard Bonnie say to her a lot.

Unread post by **menehune** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:42 pm

Not looking to get into a debate but I think it's hilarious how many people are outraged that Olivia was (or wasn't) forced to be baptized, something that has no lasting physical repercussions, meanwhile they probably have made physical decisions for their children such as circumcision, tonsillectomy, ear piercing, etc.

I'm no religious person, but I do recognize it's value for others. We as parents make all kinds of decisions for our children when they are young. This is no different.

Just saying, I think there is a whole lot of how people feel about Bonnie or Mormonism in general playing into their opinions here. Olivia may have been given a choice.. we don't know. Them acknowledging that she should have a choice, even if it was just for the vlog, at least gives me hope for the future. Bonnie and Joel have proven time and time again that they don't pander to the critics, so if they say she has a choice, I believe them.

And which 8 year old isn't going to want to be baptized if their entire family is? They probably did give her a choice, and why would she have every said no?

Unread post by **HelloSweetie** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:47 pm

menehune wrote:Not looking to get into a debate but I think it's hilarious how many people are outraged that Olivia was (or wasn't) forced to be baptized, something that has no lasting physical repercussions, meanwhile they probably have made physical decisions for their children such as circumcision, tonsillectomy, ear piercing, etc.

I'm no religious person, but I do recognize it's value for others. We as parents make all kinds of decisions for our children when they are young. This is no different.

Just saying, I think there is a whole lot of how people feel about Bonnie or Mormonism in general playing into their opinions here. Olivia may have been given a choice.. we don't know. Them acknowledging that she should have a choice, even if it was just for the vlog, at least gives me hope for the future. Bonnie and Joel have proven time and time again that they don't pander to the critics, so if they say she has a choice, I believe them.

And which 8 year old isn't going to want to be baptized if their entire family is? They probably did give her a choice, and why would she have every said no?

Thank you. If they hadn't said anything about her having a choice, people would have said how awful that was too.

Olivia seemed happy. She wasn't anxious and didn't seem hesitant or unwilling for even a second. It was a special day for her and her family, and it doesn't have to be something most of us understand to be meaningful to her.

I'm not particularly religious either, but I wouldn't judge a Catholic baptism so I can't judge this one.

Unread post by **BadWolf** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:02 pm

I thought today's vlog was touching. Just to clarify misinterpretation though, the whole idea behind the baptism is that it is the child's choice. This isn't just something that Bonnie was saying for the vlog, it's the whole entire reason behind why the process isn't simply done at birth. Children choose to be baptized and this starts the process of them preparing for the blessings of the temple.

So basically, it has to be the 8 year old's choice, because they consider it a commitment to God. People need to remember that we are outsiders and therefor view this as crazy or cult like. For those that are LDS however, it makes perfect sense and is the logical thing to do. Follow the herd

Unread post by **BadWolf** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:11 pm

sostinkincute wrote:
ewokfan11 wrote:I kind of feel bad that they made Olivia say on camera that it was her "choice" to get baptized. It really wasn't. All 8-year-old Mormons get baptized and they are TOO YOUNG to even really understand it and the PRESSURE to do it is insane (from family and the church). Could you imagine how much Bonnie would freak out if Olivia decided to not do it?? Let's be honest, the kids DO NOT have a choice.
I thought the same thing.. I thought the whole vlog was very well done until that part. The fact that they felt the need to get Olivia to "clarify" it was her "choice" to get baptized was kinda odd. They were definitely trying to let everyone know she "wasn't forced" into in.. when she basically was expected to do this. You can even see when Bonnie lets the viewers know it was Olivia's choice Olivia herself is a little shocked to hear her say that.. by the face she makes at 7:15. And when they made her to explain why she made that "choice" you can tell Olivia doesn't really know what to say except something I'm sure she's heard Bonnie say to her a lot.

This is a church thing, not a Bonnie thing. The children are asked during the ceremony and lessons leading up to the baptism if they are choosing God.

Unread post by **littlebaby** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:16 pm

But realistically what happens if they say no?

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Unread post by **Nuna** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:26 pm

littlebaby wrote:But realistically what happens if they say no?

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Based on discussion I had with my bestie about it, they can wait. Olivia just turned 8 years old, so if there was any hesitation on her part they could have given it a bit longer. Most bishops will not assent to the baptism of a child who is unwilling. Realistically though, why wouldn't she want to be baptized like her family? For children it's a simple matter of Good vs Evil.... and God is good. The parents go to church, and naturally then so do the kids. They aren't being introduced to something they are unfamiliar with... they are LDS just like their parents! But it hardly ever happens that the children refuse, especially since many of them have seen their friends be baptized in that same year. It's like the "in thing" to do.

Plus 8 year olds aren't looking to be skeptics yet. That's why they all still believe in the Tooth Fairy

Unread post by **flowerpuppy** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:30 pm

a "choice" where the consequences of saying no are negative and where the person hasn't been given a realistic or attainable alternative isn't really a choice after all...

there's no way olivia would ever not go through with being baptized lol. her family would not accept that, she would be outcasted, and i really doubt she has been taught about what not being mormon would be like and how she could go about that in a good or easy way. it's not a real choice, that's just what the adults tell each other to make them feel less forceful.

all that to say that i don't think it's the worst thing in the world for her to be baptized. it's not wrecking her and she has plenty of time to change her mind (not that that would ever be encouraged, but that's another rant), and i doubt she really understands the deeper meaning of it. it's just plain silly for them to act like she's being given a choice and is 100% choosing to be baptized because it's what she actually wants religion-wise

Unread post by **BadWolf** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:32 pm

littlebaby wrote:But realistically what happens if they say no?

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Realistically? Their parents would probably ask them what the hesitation is and most often and not it is probably a fear of the water more than a fear of religion. There are a lot of ex-Mormons out there, but most of them didn't start questioning until they were well into their teens. Most LDS children have looked forward to their baptism for years.

Unread post by **BadWolf** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:34 pm

Blehmieux wrote:a "choice" where the consequences of saying no are negative and where the person hasn't been given a realistic or attainable alternative isn't really a choice after all...

there's no way olivia would ever not go through with being baptized lol. her family would not accept that, she would be outcasted, and i really doubt she has been taught about what not being mormon would be like and how she could go about that in a good or easy way. it's not a real choice, that's just what the adults tell each other to make them feel less forceful

Just curious. Do you feel this same way about Catholic baptism?

What about the 8 year olds of other denominations that "choose" to attend church every Sunday?

Unread post by **HelloSweetie** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:35 pm

Wait. I'm supposed to be hating on Bonnie and Joel because of their religion?

I'm sorry, I thought this was 2017.