E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

[boredmamaneedsdrama]

My guess for the miscarriage is that it was before Jackson which is why it's not vlogged. But honestly this just seems like Ellie exaggerating and wanting attention by being a part of the loss community.

[BadWolf]

I think they had an early miss before Jackson. Because I don't believe they had one between Jackson and Calvin because she said in Calvin's pregnancy announcement that she only had one period and that is why they were shocked she got pregnant with Calvin. Then she went on the IUD so they wouldn't get pregnant after Calvin and then she pretty much documented every cycle after she had the IUD out. But before Jackson they had been trying for 5 years and that was before YouTube so that is my guess.


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I don't think so. I'm into TTC vlogs again and recently watched most of their old vlogs relating to TTC Jackson and finding out about Calvin. If the had a positive pregnancy test prior to the fertility clinic it never came up and in fact I remember Ellie saying in one of the vlogs that she'd seen a million negative tests and never a positive one.

Then again when she tests for Calvin I remember she mentions that they had tried for 3 years before to get pregnant. If at any point they had a loss, they would have mentioned it. Plus they are so excited about a pregnancy that they decide they have to announce it ASAP, but they had one prior and completely kept it a secret? That makes no sense at all.

Ellie lies. I know people want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but we have seen her lie many times when it benefits her. I think the years of actively trying was grossly exaggerated so insurance would cover the visit to a specialist when Ellie wasn't getting pregnant instantly. I also think the thyroid issues were self-diagnosed (and misunderstood) since Ellie hasn't been seeing an Endocrinologist routinely and has never considered the issues this might play in her fertility issues. I know people feel sorry for them, but they haven't become different people overnight. They were shady before and I think they still are.

[lily_moon]

I don't have a problem with the title. She freaking called IVF couples on Mother's Day to brag.
I feel for her, miscarriage sucks. BUT she was horrid. You get what you give.

And I know one dosent have anything to do with the other but also lets all remember how she treated people that waited in line to meet her at those meet and greets. She is not a good person. Period. The title is fine.


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[blondeusa]

I know the title specifically references Ellie who's not a great person.

But I don't like the insinuation that karma or anything a mother does makes a miscarriage her fault. Self blame often comes with loss, many of us have experienced that, and I honestly don't feel that this thread title is okay. Karma or not, that is loss shaming.

[canmom2]

This thread title is in poor taste, IMO.

Why? I know you've struggled, but so have many of us. I don't see it as meaning that all women who struggle are somehow victims of karma, but I definitely do feel that they faked the first miscarriage, and therefore I do see this as an act of karma.

Have any of the titles been in good taste?

I agree i think the title is offensive. Maybe the one that made it never had a miscarriage. But when someone we know or watch on youtube does it brings back all the feelings. It makes everything so raw. Look at Katie today remembering hers. Its a human being youu are trying to give life to and failed. I wouldnt want to think its Karma when that happens. I did everything right that I knew about. When you are going through infertility you know as soon as possible you take every step you can to stay pregnant and to think something you did in the past took that dream away. So many others have miscarriages why would you want to add that guilt to us.

[Boredomatitsfinest]

I like the theory that she may have gotten pregnant post Calvin, pre IUD. This is really the only logical time this could have happened, if she's telling the truth.

I highly doubt they miscarried before Jackson. That's back when they were being pretty dang transparent with everything. If they had a story like that to share and gain more views, there's just no way in hell they wouldn't have taken that opportunity.

We all have speculated she got pregnant with Calvin so easily because she was at a healthier weight... I wouldn't be surprised if this happened again after Calvin. In the vlog that Ellie talks about scheduling her IUD removal, she said she got it because she was not ready for another one after Calvin. They could have accidentally gotten pregnant with another, miscarried or had a chemical, and that's what made her realize how unready she was for another. That's right around the time they started becoming more and more secretive and Ellie very clearly was not doing well mentally, so, it would make sense.

But I'm with HS. Please. Let's talk more about her IF. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but it seems to me that it's becoming more and more obvious that it really just comes down to her body fat %.

[HelloSweetie]

I went back and checked the old IF playlist. On Mar 25, 2013 they announce they are going to document their story going forward and promise to be open. They say in the break down of their history that they have never been pregnant. If they had a miscarriage after that point, then they hid it, but I really doubt that given it was TTC that their channel was being built on. If they don't hide it now, they wouldn't have hid it then.

I don't think there was a pregnancy after Cal, but haven't caught up on those vlogs yet to rule it out. So we know when the IUD vlog was?

I think she's adding a third to get that RPL testing sooner and covered by insurance.

[FakingIt_MakingIt]

I think she's lying. If she had a miscarriage before Jackson they would have been parading that around, it would have only cemented them further in the infertility community.
And if she had a miscarriage after Calvin, before her clear blue iud period she would have known better this supposedly third pregnancy then to be SO sure.
After my first miscarriage I was hyper aware of everything that could, and did, go wrong. Every woman I know has been the same. There is NO way someone who has had two miscarriages, one the previous cycle, is SO confident.
I'm sure she's lying, like they did about the time line while ttc Jackson, so she can get into treatment. What Ellie wants Ellie gets, now.

[littlebaby]

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say she's not lying about the third miscarriage. It's entirely plausible it happened soon after Calvin. Also, I don't think lying about a miscarriage publicly would go over well with her family, especially because her sisters have experienced multiple miscarriages as well. We can all agree that they're not the most genuine people, especially as Youtubers, but I can't imagine them being okay with a lie about a loss (especially Ruby, who has a detailed video about her five miscarriages). It also wouldn't make any sense if E+J took an extra step and lied about a secret pregnancy to fake a secret miscarriage for their family, just to be able to say she had three miscarriages on a social media post to avoid their criticisms. Ellie is a lot of things, but I can't see this being plausible. Of course E+J could have kept the pregnancy/miscarriage to themselves, but from what we know, that's not how their family works. That being said, if it did happen so soon after Calvin, they may have kept it to themselves longer to freak out and process it alone.

I'm still fuzzy about the Mother's Day business, and honestly haven't even been able to form my own concrete opinion on whether or not I think she was actually pregnant. But this "third" miscarriage, I'll believe. It would make sense as to why she became unreasonably miserable after Calvin and to this day is only happy when she's pregnant. She got her two boys, then had an oops but lost it anyway. Then she probably felt guilty about it, fearing that might have been her last chance (since she still thought she was struggling with infertility.. somehow). Getting pregnant again in May (again, not sure, but in her mind she was..) may have honestly been more about closing the door on her other hidden miscarriage and feeling "worthy" of being able to get pregnant again, than actually getting pregnant again, which is why she was so determined to see that little blue line.

I'm totally just spitballing here, which is all we can do. But that's my take.


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[lmmomSD]

That's really sucky of she is lying. She's miscarrying, she is in pain, and has the temerity to lie about another miscarriage? I have never had one. That I know of, anyway. But I have plenty of friends who have, and have heard your stories. I can't imagine lying about something like that.
I 100% agree that she's not really very infertile. She hasn't really had any trouble getting pregnant since Jackson. And I think that it's ignorance of how her body works, are how important a healthy weight is. If she really has hypothyroidism, she needs that managed too. I have said it before, but I am continuously flabbergasted by how little she knows about her own body, and her obstinate refusal to learn.


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[HelloSweetie]

I 100% think Jennifer would be ok with her embellishing if it meant getting faster medical intervention. I know plenty of Christians treat have no problem lying when it's convenient for them, and we know Jennifer has told the girls to be pushy in the past when it came down to wanting Care ASAP and but waiting.

I'm surprised people are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as we saw multiple positive tests with Jackson and Calvin and the most recent m/c and just the ONE CB test for the MD video.

Ellie may have thought she was pregnant, but Jared didn't. They still lied and the family has their doubts about it based on how they acted.

Was there a time we can remember on Bonnie's vlog her strangely appearing at Ellie's side and being oddly sympathetic and supportive?

[MommaLindsey2]

I just watched the newest Matt and Em vlog. Emily gives a heartfelt message about Ellie and Jared and the miscarriage and even links to their channel. She said the baby stopped growing at 4 weeks pregnant not sure if Ellie shared that bit or not. Not that it matters, it's still a loss. It makes me sad since they rarely give shoutouts to Matt and Em on their channel.

[Boredomatitsfinest]

Here's the thing though, looking at the facts:

- Ellie is known to have irregular periods.
- Ellie gets pregnant with Jackson using fertility drugs.
- Ellie has one period (cycle) in the 17 month time period of being pregnant with Jackson - pregnant with Calvin.
- Ellie gets an IUD soon after having Calvin.
- Ellie's periods are few and far between with the IUD.

Now, look at the speculation:

- Ellie doesn't have periods frequently enough to be able to tell the difference between for sure, absolute pregnancy symptoms and PMS.
- In a, let's say, roughly 30 month time period (over 2 years) between getting pregnant with Jackson and Calvin, and some time after, Ellie had one period and potentially one miscarriage/chemical. Her symptoms before her pregnancies are going to stick in her head much more vividly than PMS symptoms to a period that she had no idea when she would be getting.
- Now, fast forward to the last couple of months, post IUD removal. Ellie was symptom spotting like crazy (literally, crazy) because she was so SURE she was pregnant. Her boobs hurt, she was bloated, she was hungry - maybe all signs she had the last (potentially) 3 times she was pregnant, so that's how she "just KNEW" she was. But, surprise, she was just PMSing and got her period.

I don't completely put it past her to blatantly lie, but I just think it's more believable that she could've been confused. Like, the ding dong didn't even know the word for "confused." I think it's one thing to go from being confused and possibly fabricating details of a pregnancy/miscarriage in your head, but another to just completely pull a make believe miscarriage out of your ass. I don't think (and honestly I REALLY hope not) they/she would sink that low.

[HelloSweetie]

Ellie recorded her phone call to the fertility clinic the same day she made her appt to have the IUD out. She gave them her history and asked for advice on how to proceed. There was NO mention of a miscarriage in the history. If one happened it must have been after the removal.

She also said in the vlog where hey mention wanting to try after April that this time they are going to document even more than before. We definitely saw this with the MD announcement.

Strangely they also told her not to use OPKs and she got off the phone saying they told her to go buy some. Comprehension isn't a skill of hers.

[ja14]

She may have gotten pregnant with the IUD and miscarried due to having the IUD. Since that was to blame, she wouldn't be suspecting another one since she no longer had it. You will find a TON of stories online about women becoming pregnant with it, some end well, others not so much. I have one and take a cheapie pregnancy test about ever other week, because I'm paranoid lol

[HelloSweetie]

But Jared said in the vlog they had the pregnancy news to themselves and they had never done that before.

If she got pregnant while using an IUD, she is definitely fertile.

[boredmamaneedsdrama]

It doesn't even matter to me when she had all the miscarriages. She's only talking about it because she wants attention. What's the point of bringing up a third secret miscarriage? To get people talking. That's all. It's completely irrelevant to what's going on.
She's going through a miscarriage and we all already feel sorry for her loss. But that's not enough, she needs to mention how she's had three losses, so we pity her even more. It's the infertility-loss olympics and she needs to win.

[jess595]

I'm thinking the miscarriage they didn't vlog was either when they weren't vlogging and very early on, before Jackson, or between the two they vlogged, one of which may have been chemical etc etc, and they thought it was too much to vlog them both. I can completely understand them keeping it private though, it's just a bit random to throw it out there now.
I really think they need some time off from vlogging, even just to spend it at home doing nothing, they should take a break, be with the kids and their family

[RecklessDisregard]

I 100% think Jennifer would be ok with her embellishing if it meant getting faster medical intervention.

I think so too. I know plenty of people who consider themselves good people but would have no problem circumventing a system they found excessive for "pragmatic" reasons. "You're paying for the insurance, you're paying every associated expense, it's YOUR body and YOUR family, and if one white lie gets you the care you need, then tell it." The logic goes something like that, and TBH my dealings with various clinics (not associated with fertility) in the last several years have made me a lot more sympathetic to this viewpoint than I might have been at another period in my life. It doesn't even bother me if Ellie is doing this, and I don't like her. I feel fairly certain that people who actually love and care for her might feel similarly.

But publishing it on social media is so damned pointless, unless the point is to manipulate her viewers by drumming up even more sympathy and paving the road for them to film themselves at a fertility clinic in the near future without criticism. It's already come up here, in the last iteration of this thread, with posters mentioning that three (consecutive?) miscarriages are required by their clinics before families can even be assessed.

Basically I think that laws and policies are fallible and not always perfect or appropriate (in general), but it is wrong to manipulate people into feeling sorry for you and supporting your family with clicks/likes... If that's what she's doing, which I am inclined to believe that it is. I seriously doubt there was a secret miscarriage, and I'm similarly skeptical about the Mother's Day pregnancy, though I can understand why many people are disposed to give E+J the benefit of the doubt.

The thread title makes me uneasy, but I think it's a personal problem. My observation is that if karma exists, it is more complicated than it seems. As a teenager I once said something really awful to a person who had treated me heinously... Along the lines of "I hope you fall down the stairs." Shortly thereafter, the person in question fell down the stairs and it ruined her life. 15 years later, something similar happened to me. Maybe it was coincidental, I don't know. But I don't mess with karma, or fate, or whatever, anymore.

I will say that Ellie's Instagram post was well above her usual standard of writing.

[jillvstheworld]

Alright, I want to put in my own two cents here.

First of all, I don't believe Ellie is lying about that third mystery miscarriage. What benefit would it give her? She's already suffered two (or at least, that's what the viewers have been told) and she's already got a lot of sympathy coming her way. Plus, saying she has had three wouldn't make her any more or less valid than a mother who has only suffered two. A loss is a loss, regardless of if it's your first or your tenth.

With that in mind, I doubt it happened before Jackson. I remember those early vlogs featured long, open consultations with the IF doctors, and not once was a miscarriage or previous pregnancy mentioned or even referenced. Plus, as some of you have mentioned, they were so much more transparent back then. If they had had a miscarriage, we would've known.

My best guess is that is happened post-Calvin, pre-IUD. Think about it. We speculate that the whole mother's day fiasco was a big sponsorship for Clearblue, right? Maybe they were so quick to jump the gun on that pregnancy BECAUSE of the soonsorship. They wanted to line it up with mother's day and they wanted the money, so they announced their pregnancy early on and hoped for the best. Of course it wasn't the smartest move, but Ellie and Jared aren't exactly the smartest people. And when it comes to money, as we've seen, they'll do just about anything.