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E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby HelloSweetie » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:12 pm

I 100% think Jennifer would be ok with her embellishing if it meant getting faster medical intervention. I know plenty of Christians treat have no problem lying when it's convenient for them, and we know Jennifer has told the girls to be pushy in the past when it came down to wanting Care ASAP and but waiting.

I'm surprised people are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as we saw multiple positive tests with Jackson and Calvin and the most recent m/c and just the ONE CB test for the MD video.

Ellie may have thought she was pregnant, but Jared didn't. They still lied and the family has their doubts about it based on how they acted.

Was there a time we can remember on Bonnie's vlog her strangely appearing at Ellie's side and being oddly sympathetic and supportive?
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby MommaLindsey2 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:17 pm

I just watched the newest Matt and Em vlog. Emily gives a heartfelt message about Ellie and Jared and the miscarriage and even links to their channel. She said the baby stopped growing at 4 weeks pregnant not sure if Ellie shared that bit or not. Not that it matters, it's still a loss. It makes me sad since they rarely give shoutouts to Matt and Em on their channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT4Csg9zGQE
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E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby Boredomatitsfinest » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:57 pm

Here's the thing though, looking at the facts:

- Ellie is known to have irregular periods.
- Ellie gets pregnant with Jackson using fertility drugs.
- Ellie has one period (cycle) in the 17 month time period of being pregnant with Jackson - pregnant with Calvin.
- Ellie gets an IUD soon after having Calvin.
- Ellie's periods are few and far between with the IUD.

Now, look at the speculation:

- Ellie doesn't have periods frequently enough to be able to tell the difference between for sure, absolute pregnancy symptoms and PMS.
- In a, let's say, roughly 30 month time period (over 2 years) between getting pregnant with Jackson and Calvin, and some time after, Ellie had one period and potentially one miscarriage/chemical. Her symptoms before her pregnancies are going to stick in her head much more vividly than PMS symptoms to a period that she had no idea when she would be getting.
- Now, fast forward to the last couple of months, post IUD removal. Ellie was symptom spotting like crazy (literally, crazy) because she was so SURE she was pregnant. Her boobs hurt, she was bloated, she was hungry - maybe all signs she had the last (potentially) 3 times she was pregnant, so that's how she "just KNEW" she was. But, surprise, she was just PMSing and got her period.

I don't completely put it past her to blatantly lie, but I just think it's more believable that she could've been confused. Like, the ding dong didn't even know the word for "confused." I think it's one thing to go from being confused and possibly fabricating details of a pregnancy/miscarriage in your head, but another to just completely pull a make believe miscarriage out of your ass. I don't think (and honestly I REALLY hope not) they/she would sink that low.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby HelloSweetie » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 pm

Ellie recorded her phone call to the fertility clinic the same day she made her appt to have the IUD out. She gave them her history and asked for advice on how to proceed. There was NO mention of a miscarriage in the history. If one happened it must have been after the removal.

She also said in the vlog where hey mention wanting to try after April that this time they are going to document even more than before. We definitely saw this with the MD announcement.

Strangely they also told her not to use OPKs and she got off the phone saying they told her to go buy some. Comprehension isn't a skill of hers.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby ja14 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:22 pm

She may have gotten pregnant with the IUD and miscarried due to having the IUD. Since that was to blame, she wouldn't be suspecting another one since she no longer had it. You will find a TON of stories online about women becoming pregnant with it, some end well, others not so much. I have one and take a cheapie pregnancy test about ever other week, because I'm paranoid lol
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby HelloSweetie » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:39 pm

But Jared said in the vlog they had the pregnancy news to themselves and they had never done that before.

If she got pregnant while using an IUD, she is definitely fertile.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby boredmamaneedsdrama » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:36 am

It doesn't even matter to me when she had all the miscarriages. She's only talking about it because she wants attention. What's the point of bringing up a third secret miscarriage? To get people talking. That's all. It's completely irrelevant to what's going on.
She's going through a miscarriage and we all already feel sorry for her loss. But that's not enough, she needs to mention how she's had three losses, so we pity her even more. It's the infertility-loss olympics and she needs to win.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby jess595 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:36 am

I'm thinking the miscarriage they didn't vlog was either when they weren't vlogging and very early on, before Jackson, or between the two they vlogged, one of which may have been chemical etc etc, and they thought it was too much to vlog them both. I can completely understand them keeping it private though, it's just a bit random to throw it out there now.
I really think they need some time off from vlogging, even just to spend it at home doing nothing, they should take a break, be with the kids and their family
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby RecklessDisregard » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:56 am

HelloSweetie wrote:I 100% think Jennifer would be ok with her embellishing if it meant getting faster medical intervention.


I think so too. I know plenty of people who consider themselves good people but would have no problem circumventing a system they found excessive for "pragmatic" reasons. "You're paying for the insurance, you're paying every associated expense, it's YOUR body and YOUR family, and if one white lie gets you the care you need, then tell it." The logic goes something like that, and TBH my dealings with various clinics (not associated with fertility) in the last several years have made me a lot more sympathetic to this viewpoint than I might have been at another period in my life. It doesn't even bother me if Ellie is doing this, and I don't like her. I feel fairly certain that people who actually love and care for her might feel similarly.

But publishing it on social media is so damned pointless, unless the point is to manipulate her viewers by drumming up even more sympathy and paving the road for them to film themselves at a fertility clinic in the near future without criticism. It's already come up here, in the last iteration of this thread, with posters mentioning that three (consecutive?) miscarriages are required by their clinics before families can even be assessed.

Basically I think that laws and policies are fallible and not always perfect or appropriate (in general), but it is wrong to manipulate people into feeling sorry for you and supporting your family with clicks/likes... If that's what she's doing, which I am inclined to believe that it is. I seriously doubt there was a secret miscarriage, and I'm similarly skeptical about the Mother's Day pregnancy, though I can understand why many people are disposed to give E+J the benefit of the doubt.

The thread title makes me uneasy, but I think it's a personal problem. My observation is that if karma exists, it is more complicated than it seems. As a teenager I once said something really awful to a person who had treated me heinously... Along the lines of "I hope you fall down the stairs." Shortly thereafter, the person in question fell down the stairs and it ruined her life. 15 years later, something similar happened to me. Maybe it was coincidental, I don't know. But I don't mess with karma, or fate, or whatever, anymore.

I will say that Ellie's Instagram post was well above her usual standard of writing.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby jillvstheworld » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:38 am

Alright, I want to put in my own two cents here.

First of all, I don't believe Ellie is lying about that third mystery miscarriage. What benefit would it give her? She's already suffered two (or at least, that's what the viewers have been told) and she's already got a lot of sympathy coming her way. Plus, saying she has had three wouldn't make her any more or less valid than a mother who has only suffered two. A loss is a loss, regardless of if it's your first or your tenth.

With that in mind, I doubt it happened before Jackson. I remember those early vlogs featured long, open consultations with the IF doctors, and not once was a miscarriage or previous pregnancy mentioned or even referenced. Plus, as some of you have mentioned, they were so much more transparent back then. If they had had a miscarriage, we would've known.

My best guess is that is happened post-Calvin, pre-IUD. Think about it. We speculate that the whole mother's day fiasco was a big sponsorship for Clearblue, right? Maybe they were so quick to jump the gun on that pregnancy BECAUSE of the soonsorship. They wanted to line it up with mother's day and they wanted the money, so they announced their pregnancy early on and hoped for the best. Of course it wasn't the smartest move, but Ellie and Jared aren't exactly the smartest people. And when it comes to money, as we've seen, they'll do just about anything.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby jillvstheworld » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:45 am

RecklessDisregard wrote: I will say that Ellie's Instagram post was well above her usual standard of writing.


Sorry to double post, but I totally agree! Halfway through I forgot I was reading her words (that is, until I saw the word "tender")
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby lucifer » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:36 am

jillvstheworld wrote:
RecklessDisregard wrote: I will say that Ellie's Instagram post was well above her usual standard of writing.


Sorry to double post, but I totally agree! Halfway through I forgot I was reading her words (that is, until I saw the word "tender")


LOL :lol: :lol: Therez always some ulterior motive with Ellie..!!
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby HelloSweetie » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:15 am

People are acting like wouldn't lie had me confused because we've seen many times they have no problem lying. Couldn't sleep last night so I went back and watched A LOT of the more recent vlogs to try and figure out if they even said anything in their little "talks" they give to suggest they have had a loss and NOTHING. All they talk about is the regret of not having more footage from the beginning days of TTC Jackson, and how they are going to show everything from the start. Then the MD loss happens, and they later talk about how hurt they are that their openness wasn't received well, and how next time they may wait a bit to tell, but will still share good or bad.

People can give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't lying, but I'm telling you, none of the calls to the doctors even suggested a miscarriage concern or history, and neither did E&J's behaviour. The miscarriage announcement vlog they went on and on about how great the ninth was keeping the pregnancy to themselves and how they had NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE.

If they aren't lying for faster care (which sorry, is unethical), then they are lying for the sympathy (Pain Olympics) and they definitely wouldn't be the first couple to do this. I think we all know a person like THAT.

They can't cry IF anymore, so their channel can now be based on loss. Not the average everyday unfortunate loss, but repeat loss. There is a difference between 2 losses and 3 imo, and I don't think it's an insignificant lie at all.

But if they had a history of m/c and still HAD to call the IVF couple's on MD, then that is even more ignorant and awful than we thought.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby onbreak » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:18 am

We're all entitled to think what we want.. And I think jareds behavior speaks the loudest.. He had no idea how to handle the Mother's Day Ellie

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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby Ducklings4 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:54 am

I wonder if Ellie had another heavy period and decided she was having another miscarriage after MD. She would not have thought she was pregnant, but then got a heavy period so she said oh I must have been pregnant and I miscarried like the last time. I don't know if I made sense of what I think her thought process is, I am just surmising.


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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby Sarai » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:57 am

I think Ellie invites the speculation. She could have just left it at miscarriages but she put a number to get more sympathy or attention. If she doesn't want to talk about it, why mention it?
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby FakingIt_MakingIt » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:04 am

Sarai wrote:I think Ellie invites the speculation. She could have just left it at miscarriages but she put a number to get more sympathy or attention. If she doesn't want to talk about it, why mention it?



Because then when they turn up at the fertility clinic most of the viewers won't question it, she's had the standard 3 losses.

I still stand by she's lying. There is nobody who has suffered 2 previous miscarriages who would be so confident that a 3rd wouldn't happen.
If I had more time, and cared enough, I'd go back and watch the Mother's Day "miscarriage" because I'm sure Ellie or Jared said something about never having done this before. And there's no way they had a miscarriage after that but before this one that they didn't share. They would have shared the same way they did this time.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby HelloSweetie » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:28 am

FakingIt_MakingIt wrote:
Sarai wrote:I think Ellie invites the speculation. She could have just left it at miscarriages but she put a number to get more sympathy or attention. If she doesn't want to talk about it, why mention it?



Because then when they turn up at the fertility clinic most of the viewers won't question it, she's had the standard 3 losses.

I still stand by she's lying. There is nobody who has suffered 2 previous miscarriages who would be so confident that a 3rd wouldn't happen.
If I had more time, and cared enough, I'd go back and watch the Mother's Day "miscarriage" because I'm sure Ellie or Jared said something about never having done this before. And there's no way they had a miscarriage after that but before this one that they didn't share. They would have shared the same way they did this time.


Yep. Plus in the vlog when she talks to the doctors office for her first round of hcg results (the "but it's there vlog") she later says it is the hardest day they have had in 4 years of vlogging. So a miscarriage risk is worse than an actual miscarriage?

A bit OT but I had forgotten that she took Jackson to that initial doctor's visit as well instead of leaving him home with Jared. He really does get more attention when he's involved in her pregnancies. He was also there when she talked about how sad she was feeling about the miscarriage, and then later again when she updated how she was doing. It's just so inappropriate.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby phie20 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:57 am

"Usually I don't read, I like to listen to books."

Anyone else immediately thought "Sponsored by Audible"? Lmao, watching too many youtubers...

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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby tintin15 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:17 am

Is it at all possible that, somehow, she had a very, very early miscarriage between Mother's Day and this one? They claimed they were going to take a month off trying, so if they lied and tried anyway then miscarried, they probably would have kept it hidden so no one could call them out for lying. That's probably a little far fetched, though.

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt here, but I think they're lying. Why mention the third one now? Why not mention it along with the Mother's Day pregnancy, that it was their second miscarriage? Why keep it hidden at all when you're all about infertility and TTCing? How is Ellie so confident if she had already had two, then this third one?

Also, if they are lying to get treatment, no it is not okay. If Ellie is lying and then gets into the doctor, that takes treatment away from someone who is actually infertile and who has actually had a lot of consecutive losses. Ellie is not infertile, and I'm almost certain her miscarriages are more likely to be problems with the baby than her fertility. She doesn't need treatment, she needs to take care of herself and hope/pray for the best.

If she has solid proof of other miscarriages, I'll give it to her, but she doesn't need to lying to get herself in to see a specialist. It's unfair to people who have no children and want them desperately, but need help.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby workfromhomemom » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:20 am

Can we please change this title to something more neutral? It's very offensive to some of us. No I am not a fan of these 2, but this is way too much and too hateful
IMO and it sounds like several of us too.
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby workfromhomemom » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:22 am

Also, can someone fill me in when she mentioned the 3rd miscarriage? Was it in a vlog, social media, etc.?
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby westwuff » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:24 am

But they could have had a miscarriage before Jackson and lied by omission to get treated at the infertility clinic. I tend to think they embellished how long they were actively trying to conceive in order to be treated..
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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby smellycat801 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:27 am

workfromhomemom wrote:Also, can someone fill me in when she mentioned the 3rd miscarriage? Was it in a vlog, social media, etc.?
On Instagram. Someone posted a screenshot a few pages back.

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Re: E+J: The Lessons of Karma - Part # 31

Postby Playsinrain » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:33 am

jillvstheworld wrote:Alright, I want to put in my own two cents here.

First of all, I don't believe Ellie is lying about that third mystery miscarriage. What benefit would it give her? She's already suffered two (or at least, that's what the viewers have been told) and she's already got a lot of sympathy coming her way. Plus, saying she has had three wouldn't make her any more or less valid than a mother who has only suffered two. A loss is a loss, regardless of if it's your first or your tenth.

With that in mind, I doubt it happened before Jackson. I remember those early vlogs featured long, open consultations with the IF doctors, and not once was a miscarriage or previous pregnancy mentioned or even referenced. Plus, as some of you have mentioned, they were so much more transparent back then. If they had had a miscarriage, we would've known.

My best guess is that is happened post-Calvin, pre-IUD. Think about it. We speculate that the whole mother's day fiasco was a big sponsorship for Clearblue, right? Maybe they were so quick to jump the gun on that pregnancy BECAUSE of the soonsorship. They wanted to line it up with mother's day and they wanted the money, so they announced their pregnancy early on and hoped for the best. Of course it wasn't the smartest move, but Ellie and Jared aren't exactly the smartest people. And when it comes to money, as we've seen, they'll do just about anything.


The benefit of her lying is that according to some here, 3 miscarriages is the "magic number" (for lack of words, not trying to downplay losses) for her to be seen or treated at a fertility clinic. She would totally lie to get in the door faster so that Ellie gets what Ellie wants when Ellie wants it.
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