Derek & Liza

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FrostyPNW
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by FrostyPNW »

I am a birthmother and feel as if I can give some insight into adoption practices that many are not aware of. I am also in multiple adoption groups and can confirm the disconnecting of the phone story. While I hate to see people grieving over a lost dream, I think birthmom did the right thing by choosing to parent. I have an open adoption with my son and his family. It isn’t always easy but it is in the best interest of our son.

Domestic infant adoption has a huge supply and demand problem right now. Latest statistics is show there are 35 couples waiting per one infant placed which has turned adoption into a business and gives the agencies and attorneys the ability to drive the cost of adoption through the roof. It also leads to very unethical practices within the industry which I think is what happened in this situation. The biggest ethical concern now is agencies/attorneys encouraging adoptive parents to be open to a very open adoption as for women looking to relinquish they will feel more comfortable if they know they can be apart of their child’s life and be more likely to choose adoption. What those women don’t know is open adoptions are not legally enforceable(except ina few states, Florida not being one of them)and the adoptive parents and agencies/attorneys can wrap the promise of an open adoption all pretty but once rights are terminated the adoptive parents can do whatever they want. The intention was never to maintain an open adoption and the agencies/attorneys know this but they don’t make money unless that adoption happens. D&L turning off the phone is a perfect example. They got what they wanted and now they can ride off in the sunset happy as can be leaving a woman on the other side confused, taken advantage of and disposed of as an incubator. If adoptive parents are not comfortable with open adoption they need to say that and only accept a match that is okay with that.

The struggle with my open adoption was that for months leading up to the birth, the adoptive family I chose were my biggest support. Once baby came and they became parents, they of course were not contacting me or in my life as my support any longer. That transition was hard and I held some resentment for that because it felt like once they got what they wanted, they no longer had any use for me. We have since gotten over that in the past ten years and it is wonderful now. D&L seemed to spend a chunk of time with the mother and I’m sure she had the same thought as I had and then add on top the disconnected phone, totally understandable why she changed her mind.

D&L need to be more transparent and honest about their intentions. They DO need to have respect for these women. When they finally do become parents they need to consider that woman is entrusting her child to them because she trusts them to be amazing parents and provide what she cannot at the time. The least they can do is respect the agreed upon open adoption. I sometimes wonder about the adoptive parents who think like this. Do they not realize that their child will one day become an adult, will question their story and want to know things. How will they explain the doors they slammed in the birth mothers face? If adoptive parents consider their child’s birthparents as less than your child will pick up on that. While I’m sure not meaning to do so all that does is make the child question whether or not they are ‘not good’ like their biofamily. Whether open or closed the birth mother should always be acknowledged and talked about with respect.

I also think D&L have not dealt with their infertility grief. Too often it seems like they assume just any child will make it all better. It won’t and that’s a huge burden no child should carry. I am also adopted and my mom did not deal with her infertility and how painful that was for her. From a young age I always felt like I was trying to compete with the ghost of my mothers biological child that never existed. When my mother became upset with me for not wanting to participate in her hobbies with her it always just felt like too bad I didn’t come with a return receipt. If adoptive parents shove down that grief it’s just like a beach ball you shove underwater, it’s only going to pop up somewhere else.
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by Tiger27 »

Interesting perspective and info! Thanks for sharing.


I am wondering.... was the turning off the phone thing every really corroborated? How are we sure that happened?
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by Lennmama »

What I don't understand is how the bio mother got Charlie back. I thought once rights were terminated, it was final. Did the bio mom get the bio dad in the picture? Were his rights not terminated?

Another thing I can't figure out is why Do & L would go on adoption groups and admit to turning their phone off on birth mom. What exactly went on there? Why would they broadcast that information?

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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by FrostyPNW »

Each state has different termination of parental rights laws. So D&L are in Florida which is a state that has no revocation once signed however if baby was born in another state those laws will be different. Where my son was born I couldn’t sign for 72hrs until after birth, once I signed I had 48hrs to change my mind. This is for both bioparents, so if the baby was born in Florida both bioparents would need to sign for it to be irrevocable. If only biomom signed but biodad didn’t, he still had rights.

You would be shocked at what is said in these groups. Adoptive parents are constantly seeking the approval of others to close an adoption because of ‘safety concerns’ when it’s really the adoptive parents insecurity. Birth mothers 99% of the time, especially those who choose the adoptive parents prior to birth, ask only one thing of adoptive parents, to love that baby and be the parents they couldn’t be at the time. Security concerns in these situations are few and far between, this is not a forcible removal of children, they are making a plan out of love for the child. Not to mention it sounds like D&L had a 1800 number biomom had. Not their address or cell. They could choose not to answer or call when it was a better time for them. What they called an open adoption wasn’t open.
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by skiingmama1 »

FrostyPNW wrote:Each state has different termination of parental rights laws. So D&L are in Florida which is a state that has no revocation once signed however if baby was born in another state those laws will be different. Where my son was born I couldn’t sign for 72hrs until after birth, once I signed I had 48hrs to change my mind. This is for both bioparents, so if the baby was born in Florida both bioparents would need to sign for it to be irrevocable. If only biomom signed but biodad didn’t, he still had rights.

You would be shocked at what is said in these groups. Adoptive parents are constantly seeking the approval of others to close an adoption because of ‘safety concerns’ when it’s really the adoptive parents insecurity. Birth mothers 99% of the time, especially those who choose the adoptive parents prior to birth, ask only one thing of adoptive parents, to love that baby and be the parents they couldn’t be at the time. Security concerns in these situations are few and far between, this is not a forcible removal of children, they are making a plan out of love for the child. Not to mention it sounds like D&L had a 1800 number biomom had. Not their address or cell. They could choose not to answer or call when it was a better time for them. What they called an open adoption wasn’t open.
Thank you so much for sharing this perspective. I can absolutely see how it is scary for adoptive parents to make an agreement that can’t legally be upheld. I don’t know much about adoption but I remember getting a glimpse into this while watching Teen Mom and thinking how unfair it seems that Cate and Ty’s “open” adoption really hasn’t been carried out that way and there is nothing they are able to do about it and even their beloved adoption counselor won’t admit that they aren’t really being treated fairly. I will say that I do also feel for Derek and Liza and their heartbreaking situation and wish that they could have had some sort of mediation where they could have sorted things out before birth mom took this final step of re instating her parental rights. I’m also still confused how the legalities of all of this went down, if birth mom had already signed papers but birth dad had not, wouldn’t that give only him parental rights and not her? How would they somehow override her signature on those papers?
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by blackroses »

Any new updates?
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Re: Derek & Liza

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They are on Instagram live and stories. She said if they come back to YouTube it won't b until after this baby is born an the adoption goes through.

Can someone explain to me why Instagram is OK but not YouTube? Like what's her reasoning?

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Re: Derek & Liza

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Kaylor1 wrote:They are on Instagram live and stories. She said if they come back to YouTube it won't b until after this baby is born an the adoption goes through.

Can someone explain to me why Instagram is OK but not YouTube? Like what's her reasoning?

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Just watched the instagram live. Their reasoning for only coming back to instagram is because it's now a private account and they've weeded out most negative followers. Whereas on YouTube they have little control over that.

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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by skiingmama1 »

Well in their recent Instagram live video they basically confirmed what happened and it had to do with birth father still having parental rights as we all predicted. She said she had learned from that situation that they would never enter into an adoption situation where birth father wasn’t in the picture and willing to terminate his rights at the same time birth mom does.
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by Caisflame »

I can understand why Instagram feels like a safer place and why they're hesitant to go back to youtube. I did see comment after comment just being absolutely awful towards them. And while I get that's part of posting things publicly, it was really out of hand and I'm sure very hard to deal with when they just had to give the baby back.

Just watched a few bits of the live because she saved it, but it was so long I skipped through most of it and must have missed when she talked about the birth father.
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Re: Derek & Liza

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They said legally they can't talk about the situation with Charlotte BUT in another question they said In future adoptions they will make sure BOTH parents sign over rights. They also said they KNEW there was a chance of this happening.

The new birth mom has gave up 2 or 3 other babies. She lives in a different state. They are not going thru a agency but they a parenting/pregnancy center. This adoption isn't as opened as the past.
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Re: Derek & Liza

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foreversoulmates wrote:They said legally they can't talk about the situation with Charlotte BUT in another question they said In future adoptions they will make sure BOTH parents sign over rights. They also said they KNEW there was a chance of this happening.

The new birth mom has gave up 2 or 3 other babies. She lives in a different state. They are not going thru a agency but they a parenting/pregnancy center. This adoption isn't as opened as the past.
I'm glad that these babies are being given to people who can't otherwise have children... but seriously - 2 or 3 other babies?! If she can't keep them/doesn't want them - WHY isn't she preventing pregnancy from occurring? SMH.
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Re: Derek & Liza

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Pineapples wrote:[img]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201709 ... 61b11e.png[/img][img]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201709 ... d90977.png[/img]

I definitely don't see dark arms! I do definitely see white stomach. Hmmm.


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THATS A PINK SHIRT Image


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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by Caisflame »

Rehashing that post makes me feel pain for them all over again. This new baby is due soon and I hope to god the placement goes well.
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by blackroses »

I really hope so too I want this to work out for them so bad
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Re: Derek & Liza

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When is the new baby due? I never subscribed on Instagram and now it's private :|
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Re: Derek & Liza

Unread post by Caisflame »

This is their most recent post, posted on March 25th. Liza's private Instagram says baby is due May 8th.
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Re: Derek & Liza

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Are they going to use the same name they had picked out for the other adoptions? They had stated how important that name was to them. Just wondering if because of them parenting Charlotte for a few weeks and then it didn't go the way they wanted if they will choose a new name for this baby?

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Re: Derek & Liza

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Kaylor1 wrote:Are they going to use the same name they had picked out for the other adoptions? They had stated how important that name was to them. Just wondering if because of them parenting Charlotte for a few weeks and then it didn't go the way they wanted if they will choose a new name for this baby?

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They keep referring to baby as Baby E, and have said this name means a lot to them.

Maybe they’ll call the baby Elizabeth?
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Re: Derek & Liza

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Kaylor1 wrote:Are they going to use the same name they had picked out for the other adoptions? They had stated how important that name was to them. Just wondering if because of them parenting Charlotte for a few weeks and then it didn't go the way they wanted if they will choose a new name for this baby?

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They said in one of their live Instagram videos that Charlotte was the name they were going to use for all the other adoptions. After the last adoption though, and bringing that baby home, they don’t want to use that name again for obvious reasons. So they chose a new name for this baby.
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