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Narcissistic Tendencies

Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby actuallydear » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:05 pm

The subject of certain vloggers (and their families!) having narcissistic tendencies comes up rather frequently in the DB and EJ boards, and this is a topic that interests me greatly, and would love to have a designated place to expound on our thoughts and theories.

Ruby and Ellie have narcissistic qualities but it is hard to say whether they are simply learned traits from their narcissistic mother, Jennifer, or whether they themselves are true narcissists.

These two in particular seek so much approval from their mother that they are willing to follow her word of instruction to a T, so this is why I struggle with knowing if their narcissistic actions and behaviors are blind desperate attempts for approval, or whether they are really narcissists. Hard to say. Ellie is quite simple and I doubt has the ability to dig deep into the family dynamics, so I'm not sure we will ever see her break the cycle and see a change from her, however harmful it is.


For those unfamiliar with narcissistic mothers, here's some info:
http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothe ... c-mothers/
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Sarai » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:04 am

I'm confused why people think Jennifer is a narcissist. Any time I've seen her in the vlogs she seemed nice...
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby staceybrax » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:06 am

I think Ellie is spoilt and the money and "fame" that YouTube brings her has completely gone to her head and she's simply spoilt and up herself. When they first started YouTube and when Jackson was a baby she was a completely different person.


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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby actuallydear » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:40 am

Sarai wrote:I'm confused why people think Jennifer is a narcissist. Any time I've seen her in the vlogs she seemed nice...

That is their Schtick - appear perfect and charming and would do anything do you. However, they are the opposite and very nasty behind closed doors.


Once you have had personal dealings with this disorder the signs are very unmistakably spotted.

staceybrax wrote:I think Ellie is spoilt and the money and "fame" that YouTube brings her has completely gone to her head and she's simply spoilt and up herself. When they first started YouTube and when Jackson was a baby she was a completely different person.

Oh, for sure she presented differently back then, but thinking back and even watching the "old" Ellie, she was still the same. It is more pronounced now but it was still always there. Like you said, it could be that the fame has gone to her head and she gives less of a fuck about concealing the bad because her follower$$$ are still around.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Sarai » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:46 am

How do you know how she is behind doors tho? I think it was Ruby who posted the vlog of them on holiday and Jennifer and Chad were very likable and normal. I think Ellie is just a spoiled brat more than anything.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby actuallydear » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:50 am

She's made a lot of snide remarks, is very cold towards her children even when they are bending over backward to appease her. There's a lot of joke video footage from when the kids were little and her behaviour was the same then... Closed doors enough for you?

There are plenty of instances that have been discussed on these boards throughout the years, maybe over the weekend I'll go back so I can add them to this topic unless others have better recollection. :)
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby just_me » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:33 pm

I posted this on Monday in the E&J forum, so apologies if you've already seen it. It's taken from the Wikipedia page for narcissistic parents. It fits Ellie very well from what I read in the E&J forum. 


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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby actuallydear » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:02 am

bumping this topic, as the discussion in bonnie's thread has mentioned narcissism... if anyone would like to further said discussion, here would be a great place to do so.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby tratra58 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:17 am

actuallydear wrote:bumping this topic, as the discussion in bonnie's thread has mentioned narcissism... if anyone would like to further said discussion, here would be a great place to do so.

Thanks. It can be a touchy subject and sometimes people bring in their own experiences with their parents.

Personally, I see this as a cultural family dynamics with the Mormons and families are very close. Generations ago parents had a more dictator type relationship vs today it is more democratic and adult children have a say. I just think Utah has preserved the old family ways where mom was the patriarch. This can be good and bad, but it appears to work for them.

I see Ruby as an oddball, a bit lazy and she has changed some with YouTube comments for the better. Ellie is spoiled and reminds me of Eve. The family and Jared enables Ellie to act bratty and at times mean and even with negative YouTube comments she doesn't change and Jared really should talk to her since vlogging is their livelyhood. Bonnie is a people pleaser and the sister or daughter most wish to have. You feel she really cares about others and I attribute Joel to her caring nature.

Yet, overall they all get along including the in-laws which isn't always common today. My other thought is spouses make a difference too with Kevin focus on his career and Jared who does as Ellie dictates.

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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby HelloSweetie » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:31 am

tratra58 wrote:
actuallydear wrote:bumping this topic, as the discussion in bonnie's thread has mentioned narcissism... if anyone would like to further said discussion, here would be a great place to do so.

Thanks. It can be a touchy subject and sometimes people bring in their own experiences with their parents.

Personally, I see this as a cultural family dynamics with the Mormons and families are very close. Generations ago parents had a more dictator type relationship vs today it is more democratic and adult children have a say. I just think Utah has preserved the old family ways where mom was the patriarch. This can be good and bad, but it appears to work for them.

I see Ruby as an oddball, a bit lazy and she has changed some with YouTube comments for the better. Ellie is spoiled and reminds me of Eve. The family and Jared enables Ellie to act bratty and at times mean and even with negative YouTube comments she doesn't change and Jared really should talk to her since vlogging is their livelyhood. Bonnie is a people pleaser and the sister or daughter most wish to have. You feel she really cares about others and I attribute Joel to her caring nature.

Yet, overall they all get along including the in-laws which isn't always common today. My other thought is spouses make a difference too with Kevin focus on his career and Jared who does as Ellie dictates.

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Narcissism is about more than control though. It's the complete lack of empathy that Ellie appears to have that makes me think she may have more issues going on than just being spoiled and ignorant. I agree that Jared could push Ellie a little harder and try to give her perspective, but I don't necessarily think there is any getting through to her. When people are speaking to her about emotional things, Ellie doesn't even seem to be listening to them. Instead she seems like she's thinking of what she wants to say, and waiting for a pause where she can jump in! That, and the way she's started favouring Calvin, makes me TBH j it's more than just normal Mormon behaviour. Narcissist will make one child the "scapegoat" at the expense of another one. Plus children are only interesting if they somehow help to benefit the Narc's image. Jackson favours his dad, while Cal favours Ellie. Hence him being the golden child.... until he grows up a bit more that is.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby tratra58 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:16 am

HelloSweetie wrote:
tratra58 wrote:
actuallydear wrote:bumping this topic, as the discussion in bonnie's thread has mentioned narcissism... if anyone would like to further said discussion, here would be a great place to do so.

Thanks. It can be a touchy subject and sometimes people bring in their own experiences with their parents.

Personally, I see this as a cultural family dynamics with the Mormons and families are very close. Generations ago parents had a more dictator type relationship vs today it is more democratic and adult children have a say. I just think Utah has preserved the old family ways where mom was the patriarch. This can be good and bad, but it appears to work for them.

I see Ruby as an oddball, a bit lazy and she has changed some with YouTube comments for the better. Ellie is spoiled and reminds me of Eve. The family and Jared enables Ellie to act bratty and at times mean and even with negative YouTube comments she doesn't change and Jared really should talk to her since vlogging is their livelyhood. Bonnie is a people pleaser and the sister or daughter most wish to have. You feel she really cares about others and I attribute Joel to her caring nature.

Yet, overall they all get along including the in-laws which isn't always common today. My other thought is spouses make a difference too with Kevin focus on his career and Jared who does as Ellie dictates.

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Narcissism is about more than control though. It's the complete lack of empathy that Ellie appears to have that makes me think she may have more issues going on than just being spoiled and ignorant. I agree that Jared could push Ellie a little harder and try to give her perspective, but I don't necessarily think there is any getting through to her. When people are speaking to her about emotional things, Ellie doesn't even seem to be listening to them. Instead she seems like she's thinking of what she wants to say, and waiting for a pause where she can jump in! That, and the way she's started favouring Calvin, makes me TBH j it's more than just normal Mormon behaviour. Narcissist will make one child the "scapegoat" at the expense of another one. Plus children are only interesting if they somehow help to benefit the Narc's image. Jackson favours his dad, while Cal favours Ellie. Hence him being the golden child.... until he grows up a bit more that is.

You could be right. Ellie is my least favorite and yesterday's vlog with her behaviors at the birthday party said a lot about her lack of giving nature and just plain mean. I think she puts herself first most, if not all of the time and we see this on the vlogs. So I can only image how she is off camera...not good.



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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Cgl33 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:37 pm

An important example of narcissism was in today's vlog when she asked Bonnie's kids if they are happy or sad to see their parents. Wtf?! She's that narcissistic that she's hoping they like Ellie better than their own mother? That's messed up.

Bonnie isn't doing her any favors if she lets that slide without saying something.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby JoCo 89 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:06 am

The heart of narcissism is: lack of empathy.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby JoCo 89 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:13 am

"Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement."
Ellie definitely shows all of these tendencies, and should see a psychologist or psychiatrist for diagnosis and treatment. Her narcissism likely stems at least partially from her spiritually- and emotionally-unhealthy upbringing. So the origins are likely not her fault. However, her current unhealthy beliefs and behaviors ARE her responsibility. Likewise, it is her responsibility to get appropriate treatment, starting with the traumas/wounds that may have precipitated her narcissistic tendencies...
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby madi_b_123 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:54 am

As a psychology major, my biggest pet peeve is when people (who have absolutely not qualifications to do so) diagnose over the Internet. Yes, Ellie may show some of these symptoms, but who are we to assume someone has a serious mental illness?


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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby JoCo 89 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:57 am

madi_b_123 wrote:As a psychology major, my biggest pet peeve is when people (who have absolutely not qualifications to do so) diagnose over the Internet. Yes, Ellie may show some of these symptoms, but who are we to assume someone has a serious mental illness?


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Fair point. Yes, there are few who are actually qualified to diagnose personality disorders and mental illness. This is why I recommended she see a psychologist or psychiatrist. But I think it can be appropriate for the average person to point out "tendencies of or toward" certain personality disorders or mental illnesses.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby HelloSweetie » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:03 pm

madi_b_123 wrote:As a psychology major, my biggest pet peeve is when people (who have absolutely not qualifications to do so) diagnose over the Internet. Yes, Ellie may show some of these symptoms, but who are we to assume someone has a serious mental illness?


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It's the symptoms that are being discussed.... hence the word "tendencies."

You don't have to be a psych major to recognize someone with mental illness, just as you don't have to have children to know how to properly care for them.

We all have opinions, some with more insight/education/experience behind them, but ultimately everyone is welcome to express that opinion. Especially when it's based on something we see in the actual vlogs.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Scar2016 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:29 am

I'd say a pretty big qualification for recognizing narcissistic tendencies is having lived with a SO or been brought up by one. That and even a smidgen of research doth not make it rocket science.

Also, can someone do a summary of Jennifer's traits? Thanks in advance :)
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby actuallydear » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:23 am

Hello Sweetie might! She's seen more of Jennifer than I care to.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby HelloSweetie » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:32 am

actuallydear wrote:Hello Sweetie might! She's seen more of Jennifer than I care to.


I'm rusty on my Mama Griff now because I haven't watched in forever. From what I've seen in the flashback clips that have been posted though, and things I've heard, she maintained a very tight level of control on the children. When we watch Ruby and Ellie, I think we are seeing what Jennifer was like back in the day. Just as we saw Ellie push Jackson away after the birth of Calvin, there is a notable flashback where baby Ellie is brought home and Ruby is dismissed with a harsh tone by her mother. A couple examples of Jennifer's controlling and manipulative behaviour are that the Bonnie and Julie had to share a winter coat and Bonnie had to wait months for the Toothfairy to come. She also made Joel pay for the sisters to accompany Bonnie on their dates, and did her best to run him off. They never said it was Chad that was setting forth and enforcing these rules, Bonnie and Joel were very clear that it was Jennifer. It doesn't seem that any of the other girls (or boyfriends of Bonnie) had the chaperone requirement. There are way more specific examples, but I would have to go back and watch, but Bonnie definitely seems to have an increased awareness of what might have been strange and shares more stories from the past. There have been numerous posts in the E&J thread discussing/detailing this though if anyone wants to find them. Whatshesaid has a pretty interesting take on Grandma Griff as well.

That said, Jennifer really does seem to be a warm Grandmother at times, but at times a different side of her comes through. How she was with the house builders or talking about the guns that Christmas. The condescending tone we've seen her use at times with Joel. This makes me wonder how much of her kind and gentle demeanour is put on for the cameras. Jennifer did play an active part in encouraging Julie to breastfeed Linc that one time, and I feel like most mothers would show concern for their daughter's feelings and shut that down rather than grab the vlogging camera. It was an odd moment, and if I remember right it was Chad and Beau that seemed aware it was a dangerous idea. There was also the whole event around Jennifer shaving her head, and how it appeared Bonnie was deliberately left out and didn't hear about it until after. Jennifer, particularly with Bonnie, doesn't seem too concerned about protecting her daughters' feelings.

All this said, the daughters definitely cater to her and seem to view her as the ultimate authority. They are desperate to please her in a way that just can't be healthy. It isn't their parents' home, tradition, opinion, ways... it's always their mother's. Chad is rarely spoken of, and he's the one that appears to be the one who is truly thoughtful and sensitive to his children. Daughters ordinarily are closer to their fathers than their mothers. There was definitely something different with the Griffith dynamic, and I don't feel it was just Jennifer being a kind and gentle parent.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Scar2016 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:08 am

HelloSweetie wrote:
actuallydear wrote:Hello Sweetie might! She's seen more of Jennifer than I care to.


I'm rusty on my Mama Griff now because I haven't watched in forever. From what I've seen in the flashback clips that have been posted though, and things I've heard, she maintained a very tight level of control on the children. When we watch Ruby and Ellie, I think we are seeing what Jennifer was like back in the day. Just as we saw Ellie push Jackson away after the birth of Calvin, there is a notable flashback where baby Ellie is brought home and Ruby is dismissed with a harsh tone by her mother. A couple examples of Jennifer's controlling and manipulative behaviour are that the Bonnie and Julie had to share a winter coat and Bonnie had to wait months for the Toothfairy to come. She also made Joel pay for the sisters to accompany Bonnie on their dates, and did her best to run him off. They never said it was Chad that was setting forth and enforcing these rules, Bonnie and Joel were very clear that it was Jennifer. It doesn't seem that any of the other girls (or boyfriends of Bonnie) had the chaperone requirement. There are way more specific examples, but I would have to go back and watch, but Bonnie definitely seems to have an increased awareness of what might have been strange and shares more stories from the past. There have been numerous posts in the E&J thread discussing/detailing this though if anyone wants to find them. Whatshesaid has a pretty interesting take on Grandma Griff as well.

That said, Jennifer really does seem to be a warm Grandmother at times, but at times a different side of her comes through. How she was with the house builders or talking about the guns that Christmas. The condescending tone we've seen her use at times with Joel. This makes me wonder how much of her kind and gentle demeanour is put on for the cameras. Jennifer did play an active part in encouraging Julie to breastfeed Linc that one time, and I feel like most mothers would show concern for their daughter's feelings and shut that down rather than grab the vlogging camera. It was an odd moment, and if I remember right it was Chad and Beau that seemed aware it was a dangerous idea. There was also the whole event around Jennifer shaving her head, and how it appeared Bonnie was deliberately left out and didn't hear about it until after. Jennifer, particularly with Bonnie, doesn't seem too concerned about protecting her daughters' feelings.

All this said, the daughters definitely cater to her and seem to view her as the ultimate authority. They are desperate to please her in a way that just can't be healthy. It isn't their parents' home, tradition, opinion, ways... it's always their mother's. Chad is rarely spoken of, and he's the one that appears to be the one who is truly thoughtful and sensitive to his children. Daughters ordinarily are closer to their fathers than their mothers. There was definitely something different with the Griffith dynamic, and I don't feel it was just Jennifer being a kind and gentle parent.

Wow. Thanks for all that. But wait, Jennifer encouraged Julie to breastfeed Lincoln!?! Why the hell? That's the same as Grandmatard telling Carlie to breastfeed her niece Emmi.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby eab424 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:43 am

JoCo 89 wrote:The heart of narcissism is: lack of empathy.


That's why the "IVF contest" made me sick.


I tried for years with my ex to have children. We succeeded twice. The first time with medical intervention the second time on our own without. Sadly both babies were stillborn. When I met the man of my dreams unfortunately my IF issue were still there. We make good money. But still doing IVF is a huge hill to climb financially. My oldest stepson had medical issues in high school, and he went to a great college. My youngest step son has medical issues as well. He even went on a make a wish trip in 2014.

For what E+J make granting one couple one round of IVF is nothing for them. They make more in a month than most families do in a year. And personally having to put one's personal struggles in a two minute video to be seen by thousands on YouTube and not only that you only had a few days to get it made and submitted. And from what I've seen on the internet this isn't the first time an IVF contest has been done.


I do have to wonder what their going to do when all this goes away.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Boredomatitsfinest » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:35 pm

Wowowow I think I just had a revelation (maybe?) ! I was watching one of the Hawaii vlogs (I'm a bit behind) and autoplay was on and one thing led to another and THIS gem of a video came up

https://youtu.be/8bvmYBgxdOI

At about 1:00 Ellie starts to talk about her "anxiety". But listen to the way she says it... As someone who has suffered with anxiety my entire life, I do not get the feeling that she /really/ knows what anxiety means. I definitely, without a doubt, would NEVER attribute anxiety to making me better, let alone liking it?! I could be wrong, and I'm trying really, really hard not to judge (I totally am judging), but I cannot even begin to grasp the concept of someone who deals with actual anxiety saying that they enjoy it and they are better because of it!! What?!

So...(sorry, got off on a little rant there)...I began thinking to myself, "No Ellie, this does not sound like anxiety. This sounds like a narcissistic need for control." SO, I decided to look into it.

I now will present you with gem number 2: taken from here http://www.winning-teams.com/narcissism_control.html

[img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/176e7ac22181547703bf60ad8395b4a4.jpg[/img]

MAN! I could write pages siting instances with Ellie that exemplify every damn sentence in this article. But for the sake of this discussion, I have highlighted what I found the most interesting/relative. Hmmmm have we ever heard anything from Ellie and/or her siblings suggesting any form of emotional control from good ol' Jenny from the block? Yep! You guessed it! Teaching the kids to not feel feelings and to "just smile" and everything will be okay. As if we needed more evidence. The narcissism runs strong within this family.

Now we know where Ellie's "anxiety" comes from! But it's okay, as long as she just keeps smiling ;)
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby HelloSweetie » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:06 am

Boredomatitsfinest wrote:At about 1:00 Ellie starts to talk about her "anxiety". But listen to the way she says it... As someone who has suffered with anxiety my entire life, I do not get the feeling that she /really/ knows what anxiety means. I definitely, without a doubt, would NEVER attribute anxiety to making me better, let alone liking it?! I could be wrong, and I'm trying really, really hard not to judge (I totally am judging), but I cannot even begin to grasp the concept of someone who deals with actual anxiety saying that they enjoy it and they are better because of it!! What?!

;)


I have crippling anxiety, and unfortunately so does my 9 year old. I would never describe an anxiety disorder as something enjoyable. That's like saying you like being depressed because you get to reflect more. Or a person with true OCD finds comfort in their repetition and appreciates that it makes their home cleaner. What Ellie is describing is normal, functional anxiety. It's her instincts reacting properly and giving her an adrenaline rush to something that many people (as Jared himself said) find terrifying. She's normal. She can give out advice and tell people with serious mental illness to just think more positive and "keep busy," but that won't work for most people. She needs to shut the hell up and stop buying into problems that she thinks will garner her extra sympathy and make her special. I would never say I'm thankful for my overactive anxiety. I believe you're right, and she he's a high from controlling things.... having everything her way. She's basically a spoiled child, and that's exactly what we see in the vlogs.

I've watched a few older vlogs lately, and I feel like Ellie has only gotten dumber (and more shallow!) as the years go on.
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Re: Narcissistic Tendencies

Postby Scar2016 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:03 am

Boredomatitsfinest wrote:Hmmmm have we ever heard anything from Ellie and/or her siblings suggesting any form of emotional control from good ol' Jenny from the block? Yep! You guessed it! Teaching the kids to not feel feelings and to "just smile" and everything will be okay. As if we needed more evidence. The narcissism runs strong within this family.

Now we know where Ellie's "anxiety" comes from! But it's okay, as long as she just keeps smiling ;)

Keep smiling AND put your make up on every day. Even if you're staying home all day in your PJ's, making sure to do your hair and make up are the most important combatants against everything mental health related, according to Jennifer.
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