☆Adventures in Babysitting-Greedner Style☆ (Part 12)

[StatementPiece]

Hi All, I’ve tried posting this for several days :
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks now , reading the comments, nodding along in agreement. My journey was a lot quicker than most here. I found the quad squad through a recommendation on you tube. I fell in love with them, and found myself endlessly binge watching vlog's. To be honest my love did not last long as I watched the horror show of their lives unfold before the camera.
Initially I dismissed bad parenting as perhaps a cultural thing, being British we seem to do a lot of things slightly differently. So I persevered hoping to catch glimpses of actual loving parents in this supposed blessed family. Apart from all the developmental delays that have already been mentioned here previously. What alarms me also, are the girls lack of manners? I find this so difficult to comprehend. Why are they not instilling good manners in the girls. Child growls, gets given what she wants, child demands, mewan it, gets given said thing etc Never, have I seen the parents stop and wait for a please. As Ashley is so obsessed with shoes, here’s a saying related to shoes that might help Ashley … ‘UNLIKE BOOTS AND SHOES, THE WORDS PLEASE AND THANK YOU , NEVER WEAR OUT’
Several Vlog's ago, Ashley was off on her well needed spa day………. Tyson had the girls and took them to a store for giant doughnuts ( of course) They leave the store and we then see a very sweaty agitated looking Tyson strapping the girls into the car seats. He confesses that Indie had thought it funny to run away, Indie confirms this by proudly shouting from the back seat, ‘I’m Faster’. No doubt she is faster than her overweight unfit father, despite her ill-fitting shoes. As he strapped them in, I saw a look in Tyson’s eyes of genuine fear. He had been alone and shouted for indie to stop. And she hadn’t... Why was this not the wake-up call for Tyson, time to start serious discipline for their safety. My biggest fear from the lack of parenting is it lead to a major accident. Tyson has taught them endlessly, that if they do something wrong . First he will gently reprimand them by first saying no no no in a baby voice and then laugh at them being naughty. Kids love to entertain it makes them feel good. He’s taught them that if they do something naughty , Daddy will laugh. It all becomes a game the moment you laugh. Not so fun , when one is running away in a busy parking lot. It’s obvious the girls now have have no concept of when he actually means, no or stop . Certainly no concept of when something genuinely concern’s their safety and they need to listen. Neither parent seems to have a, You need to listen voice. Tyson obviously did not take this experience in the parking lot as an opportunity to teach Indie not to run off. As yesterday we are greeted with a repeat performance. This time we see Indie (again) running away with the push along car. Tyson shouts STOP, Indie carry’s on, running faster, Tyson’s is blatently too unfit to run after her, plus it’s hard to run whilst filming, (put the damn camera down if your child is running towards a road) this scares the crap out of me. Please ,Please Ashley and Tyson, teach your girls the words STOP and NO for their own safety.
Last point , sorry I have a lot to say! As a chef I find their new kitchen, ghastly, Ill designed and outdated looking . I thought this was perhaps a cultural taste difference, but I see we all are puzzled by her choices. The one I am irked most by and I just cannot comprehend is the window in the pantry? A pantry is supposed to be dark. It’s for food storage. In order to preserve the food, goods should be stored in a cool dry place, away from direct sunlight. Why does she have a window in the pantry? I am baffled by this. Also, another house observation, I predict a disaster unfolding in the Jack and Jill Bathroom closet thing. They cannot lock them in crib cages forever, they will have to eventually relent and let those girls sleep in beds. By this time, we hope toilet training is in full swing. The girls will have full unsupervised access to taps , water, and a toilet . Unless they teach them some rules (doubtful) The children will be able to mess with the taps, throw things down the loo, flood the bathroom etc. What will they do, when the parents are having one of their endless lie-ins. Think of all the fun four 3 year old's can have with water in the 2 or so hours they are waiting for a parent to wake up!

[AthenaA]

Statement Piece I hadn't picked that up about him having to chase one of the girls down that day. Covering stuff is going to be harder if they ever start to talk.

And on talking, my grand daughter is 3 in March (I suspect she was born very close to the girls full term due date). I have been keeping an eye on her speech as I suspect she is a little behind. Her parents are young so may not be as aware. She isn't great at answering questions but in the last week she has started talking heaps, looking at a book "What does the dog say" "woof woof" etc with other animals in the book, "I want cereal please". She's still echoing a bit but her spontaneous speech is coming along and her clarity is improving.

I don't say this just to boast about my gorgeous grand child because the reality is I think she is a little behind but she is still light years ahead of the girls.

[alannah62]

Welcome statement piece. I too lurked for a while and tried several times to post, losing what I wrote though! It kept saying it had to be ok'd by the moderator, then one day it didn't and it posted. This site is annoying and not user friendly but I like reading the snarkiness.

Questions? Why is one girl being called frodo? Which I think is from LOTR but I'm clueless I'll admit.

WTF is a cold storage room used for? Their builder seems to love them as he has them in all of his 21 house plans. Ashley said nothing about it in her house tour. If it is supposed to be for pantry items than that isn't going to happen as Asswit is storing her food items in direct sunlight. I'm in midwest and would love a cold storage room for a tornado shelter!!

In my hood it is all the rage to have really nice looking garage doors in both the brand new houses and older ones! I think some people are getting new ones even if they don't need them. That's why it is appalling how Asswit designed her garage doors. She posted a picture which she used for inspiration for those doors.She really FUBARED those doors and front exterior of that house to be butt ugly with zero curb appeal. Dumb and dumber did whatever they wanted because they don't care about re sale. A forever house is never forever. They know that when their grifting world comes crashing down and they can't afford the taxes or astronomical utility bills they will just declare bankruptcy again. They have no morals or ethics. And we can see their low IQ levels as evidenced by they can't even remember what the hell items are called which they are building their with ie floor. They only know makeup and blankets. And IMO Asswit 's dad has told them how to be the scammers that they are and it has become front and center and those girls pushed to the background except when to look pretty for the camera.

Those girls don't stand a chance. They have not inherited any smart genesfrom T&A and since both idiots don't know how to parent the girls are learning anything from them either. They are educationally being stunted in all ways. You need a license to drive but not parent and sadly in this case those 4 girls are paying the price. And their idiot parents are too narcissistic to get them help or learn themselves how to be better parents. I bet they have never read a parenting, discipline etc book. IMO by the time the girls are teens (still sharing rooms and one bath) that one will be pregnant, another with an eating disorder, another a high school drop out, and another will have run away with some perv she met on the internet because dumbasses will have no control over their FF miracles. The girls will be majorly fucked up in so many ways, sorry if this seems harsh, but I don't see T&A changing their ways soon. Only hope for them is to be taken away by CPS and raised by normal people. Sad.

So I watched a Bingham vlog for the first time. 2 in fact. I wanted to slit my wrists!! Does Mr B ever SHUT THE FUCK UP? OMG he interrupts his wife every time she speaks. And he says guys every other word. So did bison learn from them because bison mimics brando and both are so fucking annoying. Who watches the Binghams? What are they known for? I don't understand vloggers at all. I watched the Costco run vlog and their house tour. My impression. Who the fuck cares what you buy at Costco and we don't need to know you need lots of TP because the boys shit alot. All they did was bitch that they wouldn't fit their shit in their van because all of them came shopping. Boo fucking hoo. 1st world problems. GLUTTONY. I see why the Binghams and Greedners get along. All have the maturity level of 13 yr olds, are materialistic whores and are boring. It was evident to me the Greedners new house is a lot like the Binghams new to them house but of course they had to make it better with statement pieces. These 4 people are so vapid, greedy and unlikeable. I don't even know how long I can continue watching the train wreck. It just makes me thankful for my family and although not perfect hubs and I are raising some awesome human beings.

[alannah62]

Welcome statement piece. I too lurked for a while and tried several times to post, losing what I wrote though! It kept saying it had to be ok'd by the moderator, then one day it didn't and it posted. This site is annoying and not user friendly but I like reading the snarkiness.

Questions? Why is one girl being called frodo? Which I think is from LOTR but I'm clueless I'll admit.

WTF is a cold storage room used for? Their builder seems to love them as he has them in all of his 21 house plans. Ashley said nothing about it in her house tour. If it is supposed to be for pantry items than that isn't going to happen as Asswit is storing her food items in direct sunlight. I'm in midwest and would love a cold storage room for a tornado shelter!!

In my hood it is all the rage to have really nice looking garage doors in both the brand new houses and older ones! I think some people are getting new ones even if they don't need them. That's why it is appalling how Asswit designed her garage doors. She posted a picture which she used for inspiration for those doors.She really FUBARED those doors and front exterior of that house to be butt ugly with zero curb appeal. Dumb and dumber did whatever they wanted because they don't care about re sale. A forever house is never forever. They know that when their grifting world comes crashing down and they can't afford the taxes or astronomical utility bills they will just declare bankruptcy again. They have no morals or ethics. And we can see their low IQ levels as evidenced by they can't even remember what the hell items are called which they are building their with ie floor. They only know makeup and blankets. And IMO Asswit 's dad has told them how to be the scammers that they are and it has become front and center and those girls pushed to the background except when to look pretty for the camera.

Those girls don't stand a chance. They have not inherited any smart genesfrom T&A and since both idiots don't know how to parent the girls are learning anything from them either. They are educationally being stunted in all ways. You need a license to drive but not parent and sadly in this case those 4 girls are paying the price. And their idiot parents are too narcissistic to get them help or learn themselves how to be better parents. I bet they have never read a parenting, discipline etc book. IMO by the time the girls are teens (still sharing rooms and one bath) that one will be pregnant, another with an eating disorder, another a high school drop out, and another will have run away with some perv she met on the internet because dumbasses will have no control over their FF miracles. The girls will be majorly fucked up in so many ways, sorry if this seems harsh, but I don't see T&A changing their ways soon. Only hope for them is to be taken away by CPS and raised by normal people. Sad.

So I watched a Bingham vlog for the first time. 2 in fact. I wanted to slit my wrists!! Does Mr B ever SHUT THE FUCK UP? OMG he interrupts his wife every time she speaks. And he says guys every other word. So did bison learn from them because bison mimics brando and both are so fucking annoying. Who watches the Binghams? What are they known for? I don't understand vloggers at all. I watched the Costco run vlog and their house tour. My impression. Who the fuck cares what you buy at Costco and we don't need to know you need lots of TP because the boys shit alot. All they did was bitch that they wouldn't fit their shit in their van because all of them came shopping. Boo fucking hoo. 1st world problems. GLUTTONY. I see why the Binghams and Greedners get along. All have the maturity level of 13 yr olds, are materialistic whores and are boring. It was evident to me the Greedners new house is a lot like the Binghams new to them house but of course they had to make it better with statement pieces. These 4 people are so vapid, greedy and unlikeable. I don't even know how long I can continue watching the train wreck. It just makes me thankful for my family and although not perfect hubs and I are raising some awesome human beings.

[Sodalicious]

Welcome statement piece. I too lurked for a while and tried several times to post, losing what I wrote though! It kept saying it had to be ok'd by the moderator, then one day it didn't and it posted. This site is annoying and not user friendly but I like reading the snarkiness.

Questions? Why is one girl being called frodo? Which I think is from LOTR but I'm clueless I'll admit.

WTF is a cold storage room used for? Their builder seems to love them as he has them in all of his 21 house plans. Ashley said nothing about it in her house tour. If it is supposed to be for pantry items than that isn't going to happen as Asswit is storing her food items in direct sunlight. I'm in midwest and would love a cold storage room for a tornado shelter!!

In my hood it is all the rage to have really nice looking garage doors in both the brand new houses and older ones! I think some people are getting new ones even if they don't need them. That's why it is appalling how Asswit designed her garage doors. She posted a picture which she used for inspiration for those doors.She really FUBARED those doors and front exterior of that house to be butt ugly with zero curb appeal. Dumb and dumber did whatever they wanted because they don't care about re sale. A forever house is never forever. They know that when their grifting world comes crashing down and they can't afford the taxes or astronomical utility bills they will just declare bankruptcy again. They have no morals or ethics. And we can see their low IQ levels as evidenced by they can't even remember what the hell items are called which they are building their with ie floor. They only know makeup and blankets. And IMO Asswit 's dad has told them how to be the scammers that they are and it has become front and center and those girls pushed to the background except when to look pretty for the camera.

Those girls don't stand a chance. They have not inherited any smart genesfrom T&A and since both idiots don't know how to parent the girls are learning anything from them either. They are educationally being stunted in all ways. You need a license to drive but not parent and sadly in this case those 4 girls are paying the price. And their idiot parents are too narcissistic to get them help or learn themselves how to be better parents. I bet they have never read a parenting, discipline etc book. IMO by the time the girls are teens (still sharing rooms and one bath) that one will be pregnant, another with an eating disorder, another a high school drop out, and another will have run away with some perv she met on the internet because dumbasses will have no control over their FF miracles. The girls will be majorly fucked up in so many ways, sorry if this seems harsh, but I don't see T&A changing their ways soon. Only hope for them is to be taken away by CPS and raised by normal people. Sad.

So I watched a Bingham vlog for the first time. 2 in fact. I wanted to slit my wrists!! Does Mr B ever SHUT THE FUCK UP? OMG he interrupts his wife every time she speaks. And he says guys every other word. So did bison learn from them because bison mimics brando and both are so fucking annoying. Who watches the Binghams? What are they known for? I don't understand vloggers at all. I watched the Costco run vlog and their house tour. My impression. Who the fuck cares what you buy at Costco and we don't need to know you need lots of TP because the boys shit alot. All they did was bitch that they wouldn't fit their shit in their van because all of them came shopping. Boo fucking hoo. 1st world problems. GLUTTONY. I see why the Binghams and Greedners get along. All have the maturity level of 13 yr olds, are materialistic whores and are boring. It was evident to me the Greedners new house is a lot like the Binghams new to them house but of course they had to make it better with statement pieces. These 4 people are so vapid, greedy and unlikeable. I don't even know how long I can continue watching the train wreck. It just makes me thankful for my family and although not perfect hubs and I are raising some awesome human beings.

Amen!


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[Snarky Lady]

Welcome newbies! Always interesting seeing when others wake up and realize it’s not all unicorns and rainbows!

[lmmomSD]

Cold storage is a big deal in Utah, because Mormons are taught to be "prepared" in case of WWIII, a natural disaster, or just being broke.
These two probably didn't build one because they can't fathom the idea of ever being broke. Senegence and vlogging are going to last forever, don't you know?

I don't understand vlogging either. My daughter is the vlog watcher in my house, and my sanity would be gone if I didn't have someplace to snark. I just don't understand the mentality of someone who thinks that anyone else is going to be interested in seeing them going to Costco, Target, and Starbucks, much less filming it and uploading it to the internet. There are a few families who have made it big and are just sitting back watching the money roll in, so more and more people are doing it. It's crazy. And the people who watch them, loooove them. Just go on any family vlog and try to say something remotely negative. You will get crucified. The Greedners aren't the only ones with KAD. And people send them stuff! Family Fun Pack makes close to a million dollars a _month_, and people send them stuff! It's insane.

Sorry for the long rant. I just don't understand it...

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[Snarky Lady]

No internet but that does not stop them from running a sale

[Snarky Lady]

Re: Cold Storage

I believe theirs is in their basement. The first couple tours it was too dark to see but it was mentioned. They actually showed it this last time. It is a big long room underground

[DoodleBop]

I think part of why vloggers make it out that they are friends or even family with their viewers is because when people feel connected they keep coming back. They are the ones who buy the merch, send them gifts and attack people in the comments. Thankfully some Youtubers are aware enough to be like yeah this is one sided, I shouldn't say I love you...grateful for the job and everything.

[Sisteroo]

I have been lurking for awhile now, and have decided to now smirk. One of the (many) problems the Gardners (among others) encounter with putting your life online is that you lose your privacy to do things you take for granted if done privately. Like for instance, say something thoughtless or not thought through, realize it and change your mind - because the first thing that you say is what people are going to remember. Case in point - Ashley babbling on during the house tour, talking about the kids playing in the unfinished basement. Obviously they talked that over and realized that, durr, stupid for a variety of reasons because she or he answered a comment about rooms in the house two days ago on that house tour video in contradiction - "There are 5 bedrooms upstairs. One will be the guest room which will eventually move down stairs. The other will probably be the playroom until we finish the downstairs in the spring. Then it will be Tyson's Office" Most people probably haven't seen this reply and like me, thought that idea of putting down a rubber rug and have them play down there was awful. At least now they will be warm and nearby. Tyler will have to use the guest bedroom to unfold the miracle.

So it looks like they realized that IT'S WINTER. Hopefully they won't put them down there in the spring either (or else not alone) because they are too young. Maybe they are trying to emulate the Binghams with the basement playroom, TV room, but their kids (the boys) are older.

Unfold the Miracle......LOL!! Good one, made me laugh out loud on a Monday morning!!
Loving all the newbie’s comments!
The new McMansion is definitely bringing snarking to a whole new level here, as we hopefully watch the Miracle fold-up

[Ladida52]

I think I'm still in a coma from eating too much turkey but could someone tell me why Esme is Frodo? I don't think I get it.

[Night lady]

Her lips literally do not line up. Like her whole jaw is off set!

Yes! And I don’t even think that part has anything to do with bottle or pacifier. I’m thinking she was born with the cross bite.

Does anyone know what they do to fix that??


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Yes, I believe an oral surgeon would have to break the jaw and realign or reset it.

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[Krouton]

Her lips literally do not line up. Like her whole jaw is off set!

Yes! And I don’t even think that part has anything to do with bottle or pacifier. I’m thinking she was born with the cross bite.

Does anyone know what they do to fix that??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I believe an oral surgeon would have to break the jaw and realign or reset it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

My oldest son had a mild cross bite that was corrected with braces. Hers is so severe, it is going to require surgery. The earlier the better, it will affect her speech, eating, etc.

[Krouton]

I know this isn't a Bingham snark, but one sissy commented earlier about Brandon's mouth and I just have to say....does that man every STFU? He talks over and interrupts EVERYONE in his family. The kids can't get a word in, Mindy can be mid sentence and he will just pipe in. Shut up!

[Ham Fried Rice]

I think I'm still in a coma from eating too much turkey but could someone tell me why Esme is Frodo? I don't think I get it.

My guess is that she resembles Frodo. Several snarkers here (myself included) find Esme to be the most unfortunate looking of the 4.


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[Jane]

Hi All, I’ve tried posting this for several days :
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks now , reading the comments, nodding along in agreement. My journey was a lot quicker than most here. I found the quad squad through a recommendation on you tube. I fell in love with them, and found myself endlessly binge watching vlog's. To be honest my love did not last long as I watched the horror show of their lives unfold before the camera.
Initially I dismissed bad parenting as perhaps a cultural thing, being British we seem to do a lot of things slightly differently. So I persevered hoping to catch glimpses of actual loving parents in this supposed blessed family. Apart from all the developmental delays that have already been mentioned here previously. What alarms me also, are the girls lack of manners? I find this so difficult to comprehend. Why are they not instilling good manners in the girls. Child growls, gets given what she wants, child demands, mewan it, gets given said thing etc Never, have I seen the parents stop and wait for a please. As Ashley is so obsessed with shoes, here’s a saying related to shoes that might help Ashley … ‘UNLIKE BOOTS AND SHOES, THE WORDS PLEASE AND THANK YOU , NEVER WEAR OUT’
Several Vlog's ago, Ashley was off on her well needed spa day………. Tyson had the girls and took them to a store for giant doughnuts ( of course) They leave the store and we then see a very sweaty agitated looking Tyson strapping the girls into the car seats. He confesses that Indie had thought it funny to run away, Indie confirms this by proudly shouting from the back seat, ‘I’m Faster’. No doubt she is faster than her overweight unfit father, despite her ill-fitting shoes. As he strapped them in, I saw a look in Tyson’s eyes of genuine fear. He had been alone and shouted for indie to stop. And she hadn’t... Why was this not the wake-up call for Tyson, time to start serious discipline for their safety. My biggest fear from the lack of parenting is it lead to a major accident. Tyson has taught them endlessly, that if they do something wrong . First he will gently reprimand them by first saying no no no in a baby voice and then laugh at them being naughty. Kids love to entertain it makes them feel good. He’s taught them that if they do something naughty , Daddy will laugh. It all becomes a game the moment you laugh. Not so fun , when one is running away in a busy parking lot. It’s obvious the girls now have have no concept of when he actually means, no or stop . Certainly no concept of when something genuinely concern’s their safety and they need to listen. Neither parent seems to have a, You need to listen voice. Tyson obviously did not take this experience in the parking lot as an opportunity to teach Indie not to run off. As yesterday we are greeted with a repeat performance. This time we see Indie (again) running away with the push along car. Tyson shouts STOP, Indie carry’s on, running faster, Tyson’s is blatently too unfit to run after her, plus it’s hard to run whilst filming, (put the damn camera down if your child is running towards a road) this scares the crap out of me. Please ,Please Ashley and Tyson, teach your girls the words STOP and NO for their own safety.
Last point , sorry I have a lot to say! As a chef I find their new kitchen, ghastly, Ill designed and outdated looking . I thought this was perhaps a cultural taste difference, but I see we all are puzzled by her choices. The one I am irked most by and I just cannot comprehend is the window in the pantry? A pantry is supposed to be dark. It’s for food storage. In order to preserve the food, goods should be stored in a cool dry place, away from direct sunlight. Why does she have a window in the pantry? I am baffled by this. Also, another house observation, I predict a disaster unfolding in the Jack and Jill Bathroom closet thing. They cannot lock them in crib cages forever, they will have to eventually relent and let those girls sleep in beds. By this time, we hope toilet training is in full swing. The girls will have full unsupervised access to taps , water, and a toilet . Unless they teach them some rules (doubtful) The children will be able to mess with the taps, throw things down the loo, flood the bathroom etc. What will they do, when the parents are having one of their endless lie-ins. Think of all the fun four 3 year old's can have with water in the 2 or so hours they are waiting for a parent to wake up!

Spot on, Statementpiece. Welcome to you and other new posters. I also had a very hard time getting access to this site at first. It makes me wonder how many other people are trying and give up. Please don't give up. It does work eventually!

Anyway, Statementpiece, your post regarding safety factors resonates with me. Thank you! I, too, saw the fear in Tyson's eyes when he explained Indie had outrun him during Ashley's queeen spa day vlog a few weeks ago. Why on earth would Tyson let them down on the ground in a parking lot if he cannot manage them by himself? I would not do it! Why not practice and implement a systematic routine for getting in and out of the car safely? It seems like fly by the seat of his pants all the time with his stupid grin on his face. Sorry, but their lack of vigilance, organization and planning drives me nuts!

Then the vlog recently where Indie, at least a yard away from Tyson (who is filming the whole time) literally runs into the middle of the main neighborhood road. It was pure chance/luck that a car wasn't coming at that moment. Had a car come down that road and with Indie running full speed out of nowhere into the road - Indie would have been hit by the car. Here's the link: and it's at about :25 into the video

Isn't it interesting she/the editor opened the vlog with this? Is it for the entertainment factor or do they like to take risks. Is it a deep seated "thumbing the nose" at people who plead them to be careful and have more of plan? Are they testing God to see if "he'll" protect them? Some personality types (perhaps even disorders?) like to play it close to the edge - it gives them a thrill, makes them feel like they duped everyone. I hope this is not the case. These are chances I wouldn't take with my kids.

[Imsorrybut]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I like Brandon. I find him funny. Yes he's over the top and he over explains things and I much prefer when Mindy vlogs but he loves his family and works a full time job then stays up super late to edit vlogs. He's not lazy like Tyson and Ashley, and I appreciate a hard worker.


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[alannah62]

Her lips literally do not line up. Like her whole jaw is off set!

Yes! And I don’t even think that part has anything to do with bottle or pacifier. I’m thinking she was born with the cross bite.

Does anyone know what they do to fix that??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I believe an oral surgeon would have to break the jaw and realign or reset it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'm not so sure she has a cross bit so much as an overbite. I think all of them do and it has nothing to do with binkies or bottles. Ashley has a very prevalent overbite so the girls got it from her and they got bison's homely looks, poor things. It is corrected with braces and in severe cases surgery. You can bet that won't ever happen. I would bet T&A have yet to take them to a dentist, have we seen it on a vlog?

And while talking abut teeth, that picture that was posted of young bison was not him. If bison said it was he was lying. He has a gap between hisfront teeth, the picture did not and your teeth don't spread apart as you age. They grow in apart because of an enlarged frenulum which may have to be cut out to get teeth closer together with braces.

[SnarkyJ]

I love seeing all of the newbies here. It's great that more people are seeing the light. I remember when I first started being skeptical of the Greedners and thought I was alone in thinking they didn't shit sunshine and roses.