Comparing The Griffiths (Post at your own risk!)

[HelloSweetie]

I’m not going to a KKK rally just to hear what they have to say even if they do start doing some good things too. This is the same principle behind why I won’t listen to the justification for worthiness interviews, or anti LGBT rhetoric.

Thank you Natalka for at least seeing what I was trying to say.




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Woof... comparing someone’s religion to the KKK is not the best way to go. Very unkind.

Don’t misrepresent my point. I wasn’t comparing their religion to the KKK, I was saying I don’t need to hear what hey have to say in order to know I’m not for it.

Persecuting someone in the name of something they cannot control is also unkind. I want nothing to do with it. Do t baptize me when I die assuming I just hadn’t been enlightened yet.

We are far more sensitive to the feelings of those that condone (or turn a blind eye) to religious persecution, than we are to people just minding their own business and trying to live their lives. You can choose not to be a close minded asshole but you can’t stop being gay any more than you can stop being blind.


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[queenc13]

I’m not going to a KKK rally just to hear what they have to say even if they do start doing some good things too. This is the same principle behind why I won’t listen to the justification for worthiness interviews, or anti LGBT rhetoric.

Thank you Natalka for at least seeing what I was trying to say.




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Woof... comparing someone’s religion to the KKK is not the best way to go. Very unkind.

Don’t misrepresent my point. I wasn’t comparing their religion to the KKK, I was saying I don’t need to hear what hey have to say in order to know I’m not for it.

Persecuting someone in the name of something they cannot control is also unkind. I want nothing to do with it. Do t baptize me when I die assuming I just hadn’t been enlightened yet.

We are far more sensitive to the feelings of those that condone (or turn a blind eye) to religious persecution, than we are to people just minding their own business and trying to live their lives. You can choose not to be a close minded asshole but you can’t stop being gay any more than you can stop being blind.


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You could have chosen any comparison and you chose the KKK. I don’t think I misrepresented your point— i think you’ve made it abundantly clear yourself. You think that the religion is so harmful and incorrect that the first comparison you thought of was a group of people who publically mocked, tortured and killed people in plain sight. I find it unkind.

I’ll agree with Faking It that I don’t really believe any REAL discussion is being had with you. You said it yourself, you want nothing to do with it, so you’re not willing to listen. Doesn’t seem productive.

[HelloSweetie]

You could have chosen any comparison and you chose the KKK. I don’t think I misrepresented your point— i think you’ve made it abundantly clear yourself. You think that the religion is so harmful and incorrect that the first comparison you thought of was a group of people who publically mocked, tortured and killed people in plain sight. I find it unkind.

I’ll agree with Faking It that I don’t really believe any REAL discussion is being had with you. You said it yourself, you want nothing to do with it, so you’re not willing to listen. Doesn’t seem productive.

I know what I meant. Believe what you want.

Interesting you brought Faking It up when she’s argued with everything said in this thread and hasn’t really listened to much the other side has said. People in glass houses and all... plus I don’t publicly call people out or incessantly make reports. LDS want to spread their message in the afterlife and make sure it’s heard.... at least I’m saying mine now and not infringing on anyone’s rights.

I didn’t mean the comment the way you thought, so I don’t need to apologize for your inability to understand. I will apologize to those that may have taken offence. I think the LDS religion is harmful, but they haven’t done the same damage as the KKK. I was speaking about an EVENT. I assume they aren’t killing people there and are basically talking about their whites power. Back on topic... here’s a gentler comparison. I’m not going to an OPERA to see if I like it. I’m also not going to a Trump Rally, or a country music festival. It isn’t for me, and it isn’t for ANYONE that didn’t know me to decide after I die that I would have really liked it, but just hadn’t tried it and then put me on a list of country music lovers. Sorry to any country festival lovers I may have offended.

Pretty telling you’re mad about a comment I made that few people will even see, but haven’t said anything to weigh in on the actual argument about how Mormons are infringing on human rights. Was your defence really about the discussion, or more about your dislike with my posts?

Feel free to pm or foe. The public call outs are tacky.


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[queenc13]

You could have chosen any comparison and you chose the KKK. I don’t think I misrepresented your point— i think you’ve made it abundantly clear yourself. You think that the religion is so harmful and incorrect that the first comparison you thought of was a group of people who publically mocked, tortured and killed people in plain sight. I find it unkind.

I’ll agree with Faking It that I don’t really believe any REAL discussion is being had with you. You said it yourself, you want nothing to do with it, so you’re not willing to listen. Doesn’t seem productive.

I know what I meant. Believe what you want.

Interesting you brought Faking It up when she’s argued with everything said in this thread and hasn’t really listened to much the other side has said. People in glass houses and all... plus I don’t publicly call people out or incessantly make reports. LDS want to spread their message in the afterlife and make sure it’s heard.... at least I’m saying mine now and not infringing on anyone’s rights.

I didn’t mean the comment the way you thought, so I don’t need to apologize for your inability to understand. I will apologize to those that may have taken offence. I think the LDS religion is harmful, but they haven’t done the same damage as the KKK. I was speaking about an EVENT. I assume they aren’t killing people there and are basically talking about their whites power. Back on topic... here’s a gentler comparison. I’m not going to an OPERA to see if I like it. I’m also not going to a Trump Rally, or a country music festival. It isn’t for me, and it isn’t for ANYONE that didn’t know me to decide after I die that I would have really liked it, but just hadn’t tried it and then put me on a list of country music lovers. Sorry to any country festival lovers I may have offended.

Pretty telling you’re mad about a comment I made that few people will even see, but haven’t said anything to weigh in on the actual argument about how Mormons are infringing on human rights. Was your defence really about the discussion, or more about your dislike with my posts?

Feel free to pm or foe. The public call outs are tacky.


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For someone that doesn’t feel like they have to justify themself and feels as though other people are being tacky, you were surely quick to post a lengthy, insulting reply. Clearly you’re defensive. Defense mechanisms are usually a sign of guilt.

I believe you brought nothing substantial to the discussion, where as I thought Faking It did. In your own words, I won’t apologize for your inability to understand that.

[HelloSweetie]

For someone that doesn’t feel like they have to justify themself and feels as though other people are being tacky, you were surely quick to post a lengthy, insulting reply. Clearly you’re defensive. Defense mechanisms are usually a sign of guilt.

I believe you brought nothing substantial to the discussion, where as I thought Faking It did. In your own words, I won’t apologize for your inability to understand that.

I rarely respond because people hide behind the rules on the other boards. I said my peace just as you said yours.

Let’s get back on topic.



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[Nini12]

So had an anthropology professor in college who started out as a missionary (not Mormon) to a tribe on a remote island in the Philippines. As he got to know them, he realized that their religion had a lot of what are considered Judeo-Christian ethics. Be kind to one another, be charitable, take care of the poor and those who can't help themselves, etc. He didn't see any point in converting them. So he studied them instead.
My parents were very involved in the Episcopal Church. They helped a lot of people-- taught Laotian refugees English and helped them get started in the USA, marched for Civil Rights, and in general were the type of people we need more of. They never acted as though their religion was the only way. There are definitely people of every religion who act as though their religion is the only way, but when you have people like the Pope accepting other paths, it kinda puts the lie to it.
Sam and Jenn from Samika are Mormon, but it doesn't seem to define them the way it does with the Griffiths. Or the Shaytards.

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"Not a Mormon missionary" might just be your answer - because the Mormon one feel the need to preach to everyone no matter the faith - and they do not back away after clarification you already have faith or that it is one close to what they might be lying to you theirs is about - because no they don't reveal full truth or they would never get anyone into their scam...

This is so true, I’m Latina and live a country in South America, I had never heard about Mormonism until the shaytards but this last year I’ve seen some Mormon missionaries around my neighborhood because they have a new church here. So one day I was waiting to cross the street and then 2 missionaries stopped and started talking to a woman that was waiting there too... the thing is: they stopped to talk ONLY to her, and I know this may sound awful but judging from her accent she wasn’t from here and her clothes weren’t in the greatest condition. There were like 6 other people around her waiting for the traffic light to change but they didn’t care about them.
Poor woman said something like “no no thanks” and they kept talking to her! Why would you approach a stranger, stand next to them and start talking? Super creepy but they know who their “target” is. Why not just wait for the people to get interested in the church by themselves? It’s like they want to hunt them down.

[Scar2016]

What I don't understand is Faking It is in here liking posts but has failed to answer mine (and others) most recent questions on topics we'd all opened up to debate upon?

[queenc13]

What I don't understand is Faking It is in here liking posts but has failed to answer mine (and others) most recent questions on topics we'd all opened up to debate upon?

Not sure why anyone should feel the need to comment on every single post, especially after her religion has been largely criticized and degraded.

[Scar2016]

Well that was a quick debate.

[lightasfeather]

mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL0218416820070204 and it doesn't end with baptism, they even marry them off by proxy... It's just a sick practice...

Let me grab an Egyptian papyrus discussing usual mortal matters, "translate" it as a new scripture, hmm, Book of Abraham, make up bunch of other nonsense and start making a public list of people who have dedicated their lives to a different faith, some died for it or made other sacrifices but for whom I decided by scam of a religion that has no more validity that one of a flying spaghetti monster is the right one for them... Of course it is hard to defend the undefendable and any sort of discussion ends before it began... Mormonism has never been even accepted as Christian religion - it's teaching are way too off for that - yet they will misuse the name so that they can confuse people into joining...

[Scar2016]

What I don't understand is Faking It is in here liking posts but has failed to answer mine (and others) most recent questions on topics we'd all opened up to debate upon?

Not sure why anyone should feel the need to comment on every single post, especially after her religion has been largely criticized and degraded.

Degraded hmm . . ? Like Mormonism degrades, disrespects and removes non Mormons humans rights after death and Faking It is attempting to justify that. Right, gotcha. How exactly does one defend the indefensible? Look,I get it, folk have the human right to practice whatever religion they choose but I, for sure, take umbrage when they involve other people without them or their loved ones consent. If they're going to baptize people into their questionable religion who have even died for their own faith then they may as well desecrate their graves because that's how much respect they are showing those particular dead imo. A little phrase I always remember is ''Your human rights stop where mine begin.''

[queenc13]

What I don't understand is Faking It is in here liking posts but has failed to answer mine (and others) most recent questions on topics we'd all opened up to debate upon?

Not sure why anyone should feel the need to comment on every single post, especially after her religion has been largely criticized and degraded.

Degraded hmm . . ? Like Mormonism degrades, disrespects and removes non Mormons humans rights after death and Faking It is attempting to justify that. Right, gotcha. How exactly does one defend the indefensible? Look,I get it, folk have the human right to practice whatever religion they choose but I, for sure, take umbrage when they involve other people without them or their loved ones consent. If they're going to baptize people into their questionable religion who have even died for their own faith then they may as well desecrate their graves because that's how much respect they are showing those particular dead imo. A little phrase I always remember is ''Your human rights stop where mine begin.''

You asked, she answered. It’s not a genuine “debate” or discussion if all that’s thrown around is insults.

[Scar2016]

Not sure why anyone should feel the need to comment on every single post, especially after her religion has been largely criticized and degraded.

Degraded hmm . . ? Like Mormonism degrades, disrespects and removes non Mormons humans rights after death and Faking It is attempting to justify that. Right, gotcha. How exactly does one defend the indefensible? Look,I get it, folk have the human right to practice whatever religion they choose but I, for sure, take umbrage when they involve other people without them or their loved ones consent. If they're going to baptize people into their questionable religion who have even died for their own faith then they may as well desecrate their graves because that's how much respect they are showing those particular dead imo. A little phrase I always remember is ''Your human rights stop where mine begin.''

You asked, she answered. It’s not a genuine “debate” or discussion if all that’s thrown around is insults.

1) I asked
2) She answered . . . . some of my questions. Yet to be answered:
3) To confirm/deny whether Mormonism invites/requests the presence of the passed loved one's family to the posthumous baptismal ceremony and
4) Whether the Mormon church asks consent from the deceased loved one's family by proxy for said ceremony to take place.

I have asked twice on points 2) and 3).

''...if all that's thrown around is insults.'' Not all that's been thrown around has been insults, there have been some genuine, rational and thought provoking questions put forward. If Faking It simply doesn't have all the answers just say so. It's not a crime to not know every single belief/lesson/scripture/whatever about one's religion.

[FakingIt_MakingIt]

Actually, I haven’t posted in any thread for a few days, so it’s not like I’ve been avoiding your questions. I just don’t feel it necessary to argue with strangers on a YouTube gossip site.
These threads (all of them, not just this one) have become less and less enjoyable IMO, pretty sure it’s not a crime if I post less lol. I’ve enjoyed reading and “liking” posts but I’m not obligated to comment myself.

People who don’t hold a recommend can not attend the sacred ceremonies at the temple. And yes, there are rules for how far down the genealogy line you need to contact before you can preform baptisms for the dead. All of these questions are easily answered on lds.org though so I suppose I don’t feel it necessary to answer every question because you’re not really interested in the answers, and discussing them, just in arguing or proving “wrong”. I have far better uses for my time then that.

[Scar2016]

Actually, I haven’t posted in any thread for a few days, so it’s not like I’ve been avoiding your questions. I just don’t feel it necessary to argue with strangers on a YouTube gossip site.
These threads (all of them, not just this one) have become less and less enjoyable IMO, pretty sure it’s not a crime if I post less lol. I’ve enjoyed reading and “liking” posts but I’m not obligated to comment myself.

People who don’t hold a recommend can not attend the sacred ceremonies at the temple. And yes, there are rules for how far down the genealogy line you need to contact before you can preform baptisms for the dead. All of these questions are easily answered on lds.org though so I suppose I don’t feel it necessary to answer every question because you’re not really interested in the answers, and discussing them, just in arguing or proving “wrong”. I have far better uses for my time then that.

Convoluting arguing and debating isn't conducive to moving the conversation forward, gossip site notwithstanding. It certainly isn't a crime to post less but it was you that stated on this (a gossip site) that you enjoy debating - and put yourself forth to do so . . . on this site.

Thank you for answering one of my two outstanding questions. If I understand correctly non Mormon deceased's loved ones are not allowed to attend said loved one's Mormon baptismal ceremony? If this is indeed the case:

1) Is there any part of you, your morality or your human conscience that feels uncomfortable with this protocol? This is a genuine question from one human (me) to another human (you).

2) ''And yes, there are rules for how far down the genealogy line you need to contact before you can preform baptisms for the dead.'' Can you clarify this statement as I am unsure what it means.

3) Whilst you surmise ''all of these questions are easily answered on lds.org'' it is not possible for you to know what further questions may be put forth here and there is nothing that replaces the first hand accounts and experiences of a human being who is interacting with an establishment/religion/etc and how that person interprets and understands the belief system they ascribe to. This is where candid and unerring debate actualise's the value of it's own platform.

4) ''. . . so I suppose I don’t feel it necessary to answer every question because you’re not really interested in the answers, and discussing them, just in arguing or proving “wrong”.'' I am interested, genuinely. You may interpret that as you wish but the fact remains - I am here to debate.

[HelloSweetie]

I watched two interesting videos from former Mormons today, and it was clear in each that they struggled with the idea of having to earn the love of Heavenly Father, instead of just having it naturally as with most religions. It was clear this thinking had controlled them and had an impact. It’s unthinkable to break free from the mold your parents (and culture) designed for you if this means losing everything. I watched these videos thinking of the way the Griffiths raised their children to have to earn their love, and it’s sad to think that the kids grow up thinking they need to also earn love and acceptance from the church/Heavenly Father as well. There is no free will. It isn’t ok to just be you. What were the Griffiths ever supposed to do with that upbringing?

Also, it seems that the shelf is eventually broken for those brave enough (bold enough?) to ask questions. I think YT might have actually exposed Ellie and Bonnie to a larger world, causing them to question more. Like them or not, this isn’t a bad thing if its the case. After all, being Mormon all this time hasn’t exactly made them better people so far! If a religion is true, it had better make sense from a historical perspective. In my opinion you can’t just trust what any organization tells you blindly.

Check out these videos if you have time. The young man in the first one had an awakening during his mission, and his exit inspired his BYU professor mother to leave as well.


https://youtu.be/r0mckI8Xfl8

https://youtu.be/lxWE17ZdoIw

They also explain that there is a patriarchal hierarchy and that it goes:

God
Man
Woman

(And I’m assuming child). If there’s a pecking order like this, doesn’t it make sense that the mothers have kids they maybe don’t want? They want to raise their social position!

I agree with a comment the wife makes in the second video, about how it’s very messed up to teach young girls that if you touch yourself in a sexual way, you need to confess to an old white man about it. I hate the thought of that for Olivia, Julie, Kate, etc...



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[lightasfeather]

I watched two interesting videos from former Mormons today, and it was clear in each that they struggled with the idea of having to earn the love of Heavenly Father, instead of just having it naturally as with most religions. It was clear this thinking had controlled them and had an impact. It’s unthinkable to break free from the mold your parents (and culture) designed for you if this means losing everything. I watched these videos thinking of the way the Griffiths raised their children to have to earn their love, and it’s sad to think that the kids grow up thinking they need to also earn love and acceptance from the church/Heavenly Father as well. There is no free will. It isn’t ok to just be you. What were the Griffiths ever supposed to do with that upbringing?

Also, it seems that the shelf is eventually broken for those brave enough (bold enough?) to ask questions. I think YT might have actually exposed Ellie and Bonnie to a larger world, causing them to question more. Like them or not, this isn’t a bad thing if its the case. After all, being Mormon all this time hasn’t exactly made them better people so far! If a religion is true, it had better make sense from a historical perspective. In my opinion you can’t just trust what any organization tells you blindly.

Check out these videos if you have time. The young man in the first one had an awakening during his mission, and his exit inspired his BYU professor mother to leave as well.


https://youtu.be/r0mckI8Xfl8

https://youtu.be/lxWE17ZdoIw

They also explain that there is a patriarchal hierarchy and that it goes:

God
Man
Woman

(And I’m assuming child). If there’s a pecking order like this, doesn’t it make sense that the mothers have kids they maybe don’t want? They want to raise their social position!

I agree with a comment the wife makes in the second video, about how it’s very messed up to teach young girls that if you touch yourself in a sexual way, you need to confess to an old white man about it. I hate the thought of that for Olivia, Julie, Kate, etc...



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As soon as the boys are above 12 they stand above their mother as well... Must be awesome to be a woman in a message of a "religion" such as that... Add to it the fact they have to talk to old men about details if their intimate life from young age, be judged and "guided" by them, many women (and this includes those still in the religion, not only ex-mormon) complained about molestation during specific part of temple ceremonies when man reaches at them from behind a veil and touches them in various places (this was then "updated" and partially adjusted to lower the amount of complaints from women... But only couple years ago), they are being told the value of woman is in child-bearing abilities (great if someone can't have children or something),... I could keep listing but in short - the "religion" is just as abusive to women as Joseph Smith was...

[Momto3boys]

Didnt they buy land so her and her sister could build on it. I dont watch them much anymore but I do remember them going to some land