Bonnie Hoellein: Bollievard of Broken Dreams | Part 54

[YTIG60]

As an Agnostic, I have no issue with baptisms, but don’t feel 8 is an appropriate age for consent. At least as babies there isn’t the illusion that it’s a decision they are making of their own free will.

I also side-eye the gender disparity within the church. Boys as young as 16 can perform baptisms, but a woman of any age cannot. Women are ineligible to be ordained into the priesthood. A study was done in 2015 polling the members regarding whether they would support female ordination. Only 10% said YES. Gender roles and sexism is severely at play and that’s ok with everyone.


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I see the gender imbalance in many churches including my own. I read an interesting article/study titled "It's the moms who gets the kids to church" and the special role in their religious life. I hope in time, women will be part of the leadership roles in churches.

[ba1006]

As an Agnostic, I have no issue with baptisms, but don’t feel 8 is an appropriate age for consent. At least as babies there isn’t the illusion that it’s a decision they are making of their own free will.

I also side-eye the gender disparity within the church. Boys as young as 16 can perform baptisms, but a woman of any age cannot. Women are ineligible to be ordained into the priesthood. A study was done in 2015 polling the members regarding whether they would support female ordination. Only 10% said YES. Gender roles and sexism is severely at play and that’s ok with everyone.


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So 8 year olds can give their consent? Can you imagine one of the Griffith grandchildren saying no? That would never be an option. How about waiting until they're older to decide?

[Z3phyr]

As an Agnostic, I have no issue with baptisms, but don’t feel 8 is an appropriate age for consent. At least as babies there isn’t the illusion that it’s a decision they are making of their own free will.

I also side-eye the gender disparity within the church. Boys as young as 16 can perform baptisms, but a woman of any age cannot. Women are ineligible to be ordained into the priesthood. A study was done in 2015 polling the members regarding whether they would support female ordination. Only 10% said YES. Gender roles and sexism is severely at play and that’s ok with everyone.


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In defense of Mormons, that’s the case for most of your major world religions. Part of the reason adults choose these religions is because they support traditional gender roles because they either feel natural or afford them some sort of control or dominance they wouldn’t otherwise obtain in life. Luckily in the free countries when you become an adult you’re free to leave the church and your family if you don’t like it.

It’s other countries and their religions that are concerning. You can’t escape.

[cosmo2247]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Has anybody else noticed that Bonnie edited Olivia's Baptism video? Months ago I searched for it and it was nowhere to be seen. Today when I saw Cody's Baptism vlog she linked Olivia's video in the description. However, she edited it because I specifically remember a short video clip of Joel baptizing Olivia and dunking her in the water. I'm not too familiar with the inner weeds of the Mormon church so I assumed filming an actual baptism is against the rules but I wanted to check with others to see if they noticed the edit.

[Sickandtired]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Has anybody else noticed that Bonnie edited Olivia's Baptism video? Months ago I searched for it and it was nowhere to be seen. Today when I saw Cody's Baptism vlog she linked Olivia's video in the description. However, she edited it because I specifically remember a short video clip of Joel baptizing Olivia and dunking her in the water. I'm not too familiar with the inner weeds of the Mormon church so I assumed filming an actual baptism is against the rules but I wanted to check with others to see if they noticed the edit.

Ya I think that’s a big no no. Some things the church wants to remain sacred (like anything done in the temple or with the priesthood). You aren’t even suppose to film baby blessings.

[FakingIt_MakingIt]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Has anybody else noticed that Bonnie edited Olivia's Baptism video? Months ago I searched for it and it was nowhere to be seen. Today when I saw Cody's Baptism vlog she linked Olivia's video in the description. However, she edited it because I specifically remember a short video clip of Joel baptizing Olivia and dunking her in the water. I'm not too familiar with the inner weeds of the Mormon church so I assumed filming an actual baptism is against the rules but I wanted to check with others to see if they noticed the edit.

Ya I think that’s a big no no. Some things the church wants to remain sacred (like anything done in the temple or with the priesthood). You aren’t even suppose to film baby blessings.

It shouldn’t be filmed. It’s supposed to be a sacred moment full of the spirit. IMO filming completely takes away from the spirit felt for the person filming, being filmed, and anyone else in attendance.

[HelloSweetie]

As an Agnostic, I have no issue with baptisms, but don’t feel 8 is an appropriate age for consent. At least as babies there isn’t the illusion that it’s a decision they are making of their own free will.

I also side-eye the gender disparity within the church. Boys as young as 16 can perform baptisms, but a woman of any age cannot. Women are ineligible to be ordained into the priesthood. A study was done in 2015 polling the members regarding whether they would support female ordination. Only 10% said YES. Gender roles and sexism is severely at play and that’s ok with everyone.


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In defense of Mormons, that’s the case for most of your major world religions. Part of the reason adults choose these religions is because they support traditional gender roles because they either feel natural or afford them some sort of control or dominance they wouldn’t otherwise obtain in life. Luckily in the free countries when you become an adult you’re free to leave the church and your family if you don’t like it.

It’s other countries and their religions that are concerning. You can’t escape.

Equality is not a curve. Just because other religions are more concerning, doesn’t somehow make others less.


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[Z3phyr]

Well, they’re all concerning. Some you just cannot escape. Some people like and welcome traditional gender roles. It feels natural to them. They aren’t bad people for living that way.

The only Mormons I’ve ever known are ex-Mormons. They seem to lead normal lives and aren’t traumatized or oppressed.They weren’t shunned by their families when they left the church either. They’re just like all of the ex-Catholics I know. A lot of this inequality stuff is pure stereotype. For example, these Griffiths girls seem to wear the pants in the family. It’s definitely a matriarchal clan.

[HelloSweetie]

Well, they’re all concerning. Some you just cannot escape. Some people like and welcome traditional gender roles. It feels natural to them. They aren’t bad people for living that way.

The only Mormons I’ve ever known are ex-Mormons. They seem to lead normal lives and aren’t traumatized or oppressed.They weren’t shunned by their families when they left the church either. They’re just like all of the ex-Catholics I know. A lot of this inequality stuff is pure stereotype. For example, these Griffiths girls seem to wear the pants in the family. It’s definitely a matriarchal clan.

Just because you haven’t met any doesn’t mean that group doesn’t exist. Many have been judged and shunned by their families. Not all by any means, but there are many.

If people want to welcome traditional gender roles that’s fine. That said, it should be an informed choice. Keeping someone isolated to manipulate that choice is wrong imo.


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[ba1006]

Well, they’re all concerning. Some you just cannot escape. Some people like and welcome traditional gender roles. It feels natural to them. They aren’t bad people for living that way.

The only Mormons I’ve ever known are ex-Mormons. They seem to lead normal lives and aren’t traumatized or oppressed.They weren’t shunned by their families when they left the church either. They’re just like all of the ex-Catholics I know. A lot of this inequality stuff is pure stereotype. For example, these Griffiths girls seem to wear the pants in the family. It’s definitely a matriarchal clan.

I don't think Ruby wears the pants in her family but her sisters do mainly because they married wimpy men who have no backbone and feel privileged that their wives chose them. It's too bad their parents didn't raise them to have more self-confidence.

[lmmomSD]

Hopefully they are having him checked, he doesn’t even appear to be growing at this point while his siblings are around him. Olivia won’t be tall either with the height of the women in their family and she is growing steadily ahead of him although girls get to their peak height before boys.

Those pictures of Bonnie are edited poorly, which is why her eye is so wonky in the one. They didn’t check her face after the edit they were just checking the body.

I don’t think that her eye situation in that picture was a matter of poor editing. Her eyes have been crazy like that in a few pictures. I think it’s the way she holds her mouth now + the suuuuuuper arching of one eyebrow. I very, very much doubt Bonnie would forget to look at her own face before posting. I think she just thinks that lip situation and face is attractive.

Someone really needs to tell her that closed mouth "smile" just makes her look smug. She's pretty when she smiles for real.

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[RootBeerFloatie]

The baptism doesn't bother me because it's not like it actually does anything, just gets them a little wet, and they get to be the center of attention for a day age have a fun time. If the kid sees the light later on in life and leaves the church, I don't see the baptism as something they'll be traumatized by, unlike the gender roles, racism, sex shaming, lack of proper education, etc.

That might be my atheist worldview taking over, but little dunk in the water doesn't hurt anyone, nor does it actually change anything about them mentally or physically. An 8 year old isn't capable of fully grasping what it means to be baptized, so I assume it doesn't take much of a heavy toll on their life other than a thing they did because everyone else did.

Not that I'm in the business of defending the Mormon church. They can baptize all the kids that they want if they promise to stop molesting them!

[HelloSweetie]

The baptism doesn't bother me because it's not like it actually does anything, just gets them a little wet, and they get to be the center of attention for a day age have a fun time. If the kid sees the light later on in life and leaves the church, I don't see the baptism as something they'll be traumatized by, unlike the gender roles, racism, sex shaming, lack of proper education, etc.

That might be my atheist worldview taking over, but little dunk in the water doesn't hurt anyone, nor does it actually change anything about them mentally or physically. An 8 year old isn't capable of fully grasping what it means to be baptized, so I assume it doesn't take much of a heavy toll on their life other than a thing they did because everyone else did.

Not that I'm in the business of defending the Mormon church. They can baptize all the kids that they want if they promise to stop molesting them!

When I say I take issue with the age of consent (accountability) being 8, it isn’t the baptism itself that bothers me. It’s the practices that start after. This is when the guilt starts. They make a covenant to the church at age 8, and essentially become married to it. They are then committed and groomed to the idea that a certain “ideal” future of marriage and children is their calling. They become accountable for any guilt over their sexuality. At age 8 I wouldn’t hold an 8 year old accountable for anything serious. If my son said they wanted to be a doctor, I wouldn’t hold them to it. Mormon guilt is a real thing within the church and the reason why there is such a high incidence of mental unwellness. This starts with a “dunk in the water” at age 8. Guilt over not being worthy enough (worthiness interviews can start at age 8).

I don’t understand how people can nitpick and criticize the LDS YTers to death on these boards, and then defend a church that encourages them to be and do half the things we judge.


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[YTIG60]

I don't know why Joel wouldn't go to a park with a baseball diamond so his sons could practice baseball to improve their skills and teach them the basic rules of the game that the boys should be able to comprehend. Cody looked totally lost in the outfield and most dads or moms take the time to work with their kids outside of practice and games just like Bonnie has done with piano. Joel also had time before Boston's practice to work with him. What exactly does Joel do all day after editing other than work in his yard?

[HelloSweetie]

I don't know why Joel wouldn't go to a park with a baseball diamond so his sons could practice baseball to improve their skills and teach them the basic rules of the game that the boys should be able to comprehend. Cody looked totally lost in the outfield and most dads or moms take the time to work with their kids outside of practice and games just like Bonnie has done with piano. Joel also had time before Boston's practice to work with him. What exactly does Joel do all day after editing other than work in his yard?

I think Joel mostly sits and enjoys his evenings with Bonnie. I don’t get the impression he’s all that involved with the kids these days.

Boston is clearly an anxious kid. Worrying about not being prepared for his ball game is completely understandable. Yes logically most of the kids are there to have fun, and don’t need to come prepared, but if Boston is going to worry about it then HE needs to feel prepared. I completely agree that Joel could be helping with this. Take him out and practice a bit before his first game so he at least knows the rules. A sensitive kid like Boston would be devastated if he felt he did something the wrong way and embarrassed himself.


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[lightasfeather]

The baptism doesn't bother me because it's not like it actually does anything, just gets them a little wet, and they get to be the center of attention for a day age have a fun time. If the kid sees the light later on in life and leaves the church, I don't see the baptism as something they'll be traumatized by, unlike the gender roles, racism, sex shaming, lack of proper education, etc.

That might be my atheist worldview taking over, but little dunk in the water doesn't hurt anyone, nor does it actually change anything about them mentally or physically. An 8 year old isn't capable of fully grasping what it means to be baptized, so I assume it doesn't take much of a heavy toll on their life other than a thing they did because everyone else did.

Not that I'm in the business of defending the Mormon church. They can baptize all the kids that they want if they promise to stop molesting them!

When I say I take issue with the age of consent (accountability) being 8, it isn’t the baptism itself that bothers me. It’s the practices that start after. This is when the guilt starts. They make a covenant to the church at age 8, and essentially become married to it. They are then committed and groomed to the idea that a certain “ideal” future of marriage and children is their calling. They become accountable for any guilt over their sexuality. At age 8 I wouldn’t hold an 8 year old accountable for anything serious. If my son said they wanted to be a doctor, I wouldn’t hold them to it. Mormon guilt is a real thing within the church and the reason why there is such a high incidence of mental unwellness. This starts with a “dunk in the water” at age 8. Guilt over not being worthy enough (worthiness interviews can start at age 8).

I don’t understand how people can nitpick and criticize the LDS YTers to death on these boards, and then defend a church that encourages them to be and do half the things we judge.


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Because of the church rules it's not actually that easy to leave it "once you see through it". Not only do they work years on brainwashing them, involving them in secret rituals that lead to praise (like a day after baptism when they are suddenly so important? How is that not just a mental game to make them want to do more to get that attention again? One they thoroughly lack otherwise for things that should be getting them attention instead?), but there is extremely strong family pressure in case you even thought you wanted to leave because of the rules within the church and what a person leaving means to the rest of family.

It's not like actual Christian churches that follow the Bible - there you have open church where you are free to walk in or out without it meaning trouble for yourself or your family or where you are allowed/encourage to read about any other faith and question everything (granted there may be family pressure to stay in church there too, but it's not introduced by church itself as it is in case of Mormons). You are not told you will not go to heaven because you avoid some masses, let alone that you can't go to some family events anymore if you stop being obedient faithful person etc.

Mormonism is very cultish thing and super unhealthy for psychological development of the children involved - and for any curious/intelligent adult as well. And that's not even taking into account all the nonsense the more extreme Mormon groups - following very same principles the mainstream church used to just decades ago and still does not distance itself from - are subjecting kids into, including child marriage and polygamy and no freedom over almost any choices.

[FakingIt_MakingIt]

I don't know why Joel wouldn't go to a park with a baseball diamond so his sons could practice baseball to improve their skills and teach them the basic rules of the game that the boys should be able to comprehend. Cody looked totally lost in the outfield and most dads or moms take the time to work with their kids outside of practice and games just like Bonnie has done with piano. Joel also had time before Boston's practice to work with him. What exactly does Joel do all day after editing other than work in his yard?

I think Joel mostly sits and enjoys his evenings with Bonnie. I don’t get the impression he’s all that involved with the kids these days.

Boston is clearly an anxious kid. Worrying about not being prepared for his ball game is completely understandable. Yes logically most of the kids are there to have fun, and don’t need to come prepared, but if Boston is going to worry about it then HE needs to feel prepared. I completely agree that Joel could be helping with this. Take him out and practice a bit before his first game so he at least knows the rules. A sensitive kid like Boston would be devastated if he felt he did something the wrong way and embarrassed himself.


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It’s early dinner of whatever they can slop together (nutritional value is not important), early bed time for the kids and then he and Bonnie watch shows and order dinner or treats.

It’s sad, I fully believe “old” Joel, the one who worked graveyard shifts would have found the time and loved to have taken his boys to practice ball. “New” Joel with all the time in the world can’t be bothered, even though doing stuff like that was a huge part of why he said he wanted to quit his job.

[Liz_444]

It's really sad that their boys don't know the basics of baseball. Don't they have practice time between games? Why didn't the coach talk to J about teaching the boys the rules. How embarrassing for them! Why not watch some professional games on TV? This is a great way to bond with your kids.

Lincoln needs his hair cut. His baby curls are gone for good....time for a big boy haircut.

[HelloSweetie]

It's really sad that their boys don't know the basics of baseball. Don't they have practice time between games? Why didn't the coach talk to J about teaching the boys the rules. How embarrassing for them! Why not watch some professional games on TV? This is a great way to bond with your kids.

Lincoln needs his hair cut. His baby curls are gone for good....time for a big boy haircut.

I actually think his little surfer style is cute. His hair isn’t frizzy and didn’t have split ends. It was combed and not messy. Not every boy needs short hair, just as not every girl needs long hair.


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[queenc13]

Hopefully they are having him checked, he doesn’t even appear to be growing at this point while his siblings are around him. Olivia won’t be tall either with the height of the women in their family and she is growing steadily ahead of him although girls get to their peak height before boys.

Those pictures of Bonnie are edited poorly, which is why her eye is so wonky in the one. They didn’t check her face after the edit they were just checking the body.

I don’t think that her eye situation in that picture was a matter of poor editing. Her eyes have been crazy like that in a few pictures. I think it’s the way she holds her mouth now + the suuuuuuper arching of one eyebrow. I very, very much doubt Bonnie would forget to look at her own face before posting. I think she just thinks that lip situation and face is attractive.

She just posted that she still had her eye infection and it was swollen. I guess that makes sense, but a nice smile would have distracted from it instead of emphasizing like that new Elvis lip she does.