John and Joan: 11 Hours of Pushing Lies | Part 3

[FlowersTar 68]

I thought that too but it was posted by Pregnancy After Loss.

Sooo...


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Ooooh. I thought it was about the deceased babies too.
Now I'm confused. Either way, it's an odd post coming from her. I get that she loved Maeve and wouldn't wish what happened to her on anyone, but _still_ posting pictures of her, especially next to Vera, is odd. And if it's about rainbow babies, she is a huge hypocrite. Which doesn't surprise me. Nothing she does indicates any level of self-examination. Just being self- absorbed. Which isn't the same thing.

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I haven’t been following Joan as long as some of you. However, from what I’ve seen, she will change whatever narrative to suit her & then turn that same narrative around to undermine the feelings of others.

She just posted today about taking “dear Abby” to task over a response about a deceased baby. I have losses, I have friends with losses.... we don’t plan extravagant parties that our family attends for our lost littles. We have quiet, personal moments of reflection, and save the big celebrations for our living children. And I certainly don’t spend hundreds of dollars (that I claim not to have) on effing butterflies....

Poor Vera... forever in the shadow of a ghost....


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Excellent post SassySassenach, and so very true

[fossilfinger]

Honestly, Joan's IG is actually starting to affect me negatively. I don't know why I still follow her. It is just depressing. I am so hyper-aware of my pregnancy and last week when I was the same gestation as she was when she lost Maeve I actually acknowledged how lucky I am that I still could feel my baby moving and everything was all right. She makes it seem like stillbirth is far more common than it is. Maybe that's more of a me problem than an issue with her.

Ordering live butterflies is disgusting and animal cruelty - yes, I consider butterflies animals. They are living creatures that just want to be left alone like any other wild animal. I'm sure many of them arrived dead in that box. Why inflict torment on innocent creatures to acknowledge the passing of your child?

[FlowersTar 68]

Honestly, Joan's IG is actually starting to affect me negatively. I don't know why I still follow her. It is just depressing. I am so hyper-aware of my pregnancy and last week when I was the same gestation as she was when she lost Maeve I actually acknowledged how lucky I am that I still could feel my baby moving and everything was all right. She makes it seem like stillbirth is far more common than it is. Maybe that's more of a me problem than an issue with her.

Ordering live butterflies is disgusting and animal cruelty - yes, I consider butterflies animals. They are living creatures that just want to be left alone like any other wild animal. I'm sure many of them arrived dead in that box. Why inflict torment on innocent creatures to acknowledge the passing of your child?

I'm baffled by the butterfly bit, why doesn't she order some foxes and set them off into the wild? *rolls eyes
Good point with the butterflies being dead when they arrive, but then again that fits the narrative of a dead baby. Sorry if that sounds harsh and offensive to anyone here but she makes me angry too. Maeve didn't live outside the womb, yes remember her but don't throw a party! It's like throwing a party every year on someone who has lived's birthday. You wouldn't, would you?!

[SassySassenach]

Honestly, Joan's IG is actually starting to affect me negatively. I don't know why I still follow her. It is just depressing. I am so hyper-aware of my pregnancy and last week when I was the same gestation as she was when she lost Maeve I actually acknowledged how lucky I am that I still could feel my baby moving and everything was all right. She makes it seem like stillbirth is far more common than it is. Maybe that's more of a me problem than an issue with her.

Ordering live butterflies is disgusting and animal cruelty - yes, I consider butterflies animals. They are living creatures that just want to be left alone like any other wild animal. I'm sure many of them arrived dead in that box. Why inflict torment on innocent creatures to acknowledge the passing of your child?

I'm baffled by the butterfly bit, why doesn't she order some foxes and set them off into the wild? *rolls eyes
Good point with the butterflies being dead when they arrive, but then again that fits the narrative of a dead baby. Sorry if that sounds harsh and offensive to anyone here but she makes me angry too. Maeve didn't live outside the womb, yes remember her but don't throw a party! It's like throwing a party every year on someone who has lived's birthday. You wouldn't, would you?!

And ordering a size 4T big sister shirt.... wtf?! First, why do that to yourself? Is she going to continue this trend every year? Will we see her buy a car for Maeve at 16? A graduation gown at 18?
Second, this behavior just shows what an unhealthy place Joan continues to remain at.

I really am curious if the family are all at this same mentality, or if they placate her because it’s the easier option?


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[justkidding]

I don’t watch them or follow them on social media but I have experienced loss similar to their loss. I am triggered every year on our baby’s birthday. I take the day off work. We have a very private time remembering our lost child with our living children. Our children talk about their big sister regularly, wishing she was here to support them. We buy something every year signifying the age of our lost child and something representing the age of our living children. Then we give them all away to needy children.


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[ladymama]

I don’t watch them or follow them on social media but I have experienced loss similar to their loss. I am triggered every year on our baby’s birthday. I take the day off work. We have a very private time remembering our lost child with our living children. Our children talk about their big sister regularly, wishing she was here to support them. We buy something every year signifying the age of our lost child and something representing the age of our living children. Then we give them all away to needy children.


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So sorry for your loss ♡

I have not had a loss but know many who have. Most of them also celebrate in fairly private ways (although they get posted on social media, it is just immediate family). Balloon releases (sweet thought but wish they would stop), a homemade cake, a candle lighting, something to commemorate the date. But not a full blown party.

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[minmouse]

Joan is off her rocker. I was hopeful that after Vera was born she'd tone it down a bit but she's just as bad shit crazy today as she has always been. She posted a few weeks ago and wrote how she can't believe she is soon to have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. Wtf. You don't have a 4 year old! She had a stillbirth and lost a child who *would have been* turning 4. Big difference! Poor Vera. I feel sorry that she has such a crazy parent. It is going to be so hard growing up in Maeve 's shadow - an unrealistic one too as her memory is not remembered as the baby who was lost but how Joan imagines her life would have been.

[FlowersTar 68]

Joan is off her rocker. I was hopeful that after Vera was born she'd tone it down a bit but she's just as bad shit crazy today as she has always been. She posted a few weeks ago and wrote how she can't believe she is soon to have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. Wtf. You don't have a 4 year old! She had a stillbirth and lost a child who *would have been* turning 4. Big difference! Poor Vera. I feel sorry that she has such a crazy parent. It is going to be so hard growing up in Maeve 's shadow - an unrealistic one too as her memory is not remembered as the baby who was lost but how Joan imagines her life would have been.

I totally agree with you, she posted a picture of Vera holding and looking at a picture of Maeve. Looked like Vera's expression was of "who the eff is this?"

[HelloSweetie]

Joan is off her rocker. I was hopeful that after Vera was born she'd tone it down a bit but she's just as bad shit crazy today as she has always been. She posted a few weeks ago and wrote how she can't believe she is soon to have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. Wtf. You don't have a 4 year old! She had a stillbirth and lost a child who *would have been* turning 4. Big difference! Poor Vera. I feel sorry that she has such a crazy parent. It is going to be so hard growing up in Maeve 's shadow - an unrealistic one too as her memory is not remembered as the baby who was lost but how Joan imagines her life would have been.

I totally agree with you, she posted a picture of Vera holding and looking at a picture of Maeve. Looked like Vera's expression was of "who the eff is this?"

Oh trust me, she knows who she is. If she hasn’t been coached to say “Mae Mae” since the day she was born I’d be shocked.


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[FlowersTar 68]

Joan is off her rocker. I was hopeful that after Vera was born she'd tone it down a bit but she's just as bad shit crazy today as she has always been. She posted a few weeks ago and wrote how she can't believe she is soon to have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. Wtf. You don't have a 4 year old! She had a stillbirth and lost a child who *would have been* turning 4. Big difference! Poor Vera. I feel sorry that she has such a crazy parent. It is going to be so hard growing up in Maeve 's shadow - an unrealistic one too as her memory is not remembered as the baby who was lost but how Joan imagines her life would have been.

I totally agree with you, she posted a picture of Vera holding and looking at a picture of Maeve. Looked like Vera's expression was of "who the eff is this?"

Oh trust me, she knows who she is. If she hasn’t been coached to say “Mae Mae” since the day she was born I’d be shocked.

Actually, yes you're right. I bet the first time she said Ma Ma it was "oh look she's trying to say Maeve"
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[aral12]

I lost my first daughter last year and her due date was November 16th. I’m now 19 weeks with a baby girl due the start of November. We also had 2 other lost pregnancies after the first baby although nowhere near as far along. Every single one of those 4 pregnancies were a miracle- an expensive and draining IVF miracle.

It was hard to get my mind around being on an almost identical pregnancy timeline with this baby and there is definitely times, like today, where I have thought “I should have a 6 month old right now”. HOWEVER the baby I lost has not dominated this pregnancy. I will definitely tell my daughter about how lucky we are to have her and about the babies that came before her but I in no way shape or form want the “older siblings” we lost to dominate her life and be her identity- which is exactly what I fear for Vera. I think it will be so hard for her to “fulfil” this little sister “role” Joan has put her in and “be” a sibling to a baby who passed away before she was even born. I have a close friend who’s mother had a stillborn 11 months before her; also a girl. She was spoken about- but not everyday, she wasn’t expected to acknowledge her at every single birthday, family celebration etc but if SHE wanted to talk about her and ask questions her mum had no problem with that. I just don’t see Vera growing up with a healthy relationship with Joan. I’ve never seen her just say “wow I’m lucky to have this child! Wow we are so lucky to be parents!” Yes of course she is very unlucky to have lost another baby but that seems to be the number one narrative in her life- her sadness for Maeve always overpowering her happiness for Vera.

Sorry for this long and hormonal rant! I just can’t help but worry for Veras sanity, the more that this escalates. Joan always says how healthy grieving is (and I completely agree!) but this isn’t a healthy way to grieve by anyone’s standards. Joan, let your living child LIVE.


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[GGF1987]

I thought that too but it was posted by Pregnancy After Loss.

Sooo...


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Ooooh. I thought it was about the deceased babies too.
Now I'm confused. Either way, it's an odd post coming from her. I get that she loved Maeve and wouldn't wish what happened to her on anyone, but _still_ posting pictures of her, especially next to Vera, is odd. And if it's about rainbow babies, she is a huge hypocrite. Which doesn't surprise me. Nothing she does indicates any level of self-examination. Just being self- absorbed. Which isn't the same thing.

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I haven’t been following Joan as long as some of you. However, from what I’ve seen, she will change whatever narrative to suit her & then turn that same narrative around to undermine the feelings of others.

She just posted today about taking “dear Abby” to task over a response about a deceased baby. I have losses, I have friends with losses.... we don’t plan extravagant parties that our family attends for our lost littles. We have quiet, personal moments of reflection, and save the big celebrations for our living children. And I certainly don’t spend hundreds of dollars (that I claim not to have) on effing butterflies....

Poor Vera... forever in the shadow of a ghost....


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I don't know how many people actually looked up and read that Dear Abby thing but I did. They are blowing what she said way way way out of proportion. Also they made it sound like the aunt had a recent loss...the loss was 20 years ago and she's still having a birthday party for the baby she lost and expects people to attend and sing happy birthday.

I don't think there is anything wrong with you marking the loss of your stillborn baby and if others want to join you, that's great. However planning a big elaborate birthday party year after year after year and expecting people to attend and sing happy birthday and all of that like the child is still alive is not healthy.

Nothing Joan does as far as Maeve goes is healthy. It's not healthy for her, it's not healthy for Jon, it's not healthy for any other family members or friends, and most of all it's not healthy for Vera. She should be making this time about Vera turning 1 and celebrating her and enjoying all that goes with that and she can't because she is so caught up in having a big elaborate birthday party for Maeve like she is still alive. Reading her posts lately makes my heart break over and over and over for Vera. She'll always be competing with the ghost of her dead big sister. She'll always be second best to her own parents and that's just so unfair. If she couldn't move on and make a new baby top priority, she shouldn't have had any more children.

[FlowersTar 68]

I lost my first daughter last year and her due date was November 16th. I’m now 19 weeks with a baby girl due the start of November. We also had 2 other lost pregnancies after the first baby although nowhere near as far along. Every single one of those 4 pregnancies were a miracle- an expensive and draining IVF miracle.

It was hard to get my mind around being on an almost identical pregnancy timeline with this baby and there is definitely times, like today, where I have thought “I should have a 6 month old right now”. HOWEVER the baby I lost has not dominated this pregnancy. I will definitely tell my daughter about how lucky we are to have her and about the babies that came before her but I in no way shape or form want the “older siblings” we lost to dominate her life and be her identity- which is exactly what I fear for Vera. I think it will be so hard for her to “fulfil” this little sister “role” Joan has put her in and “be” a sibling to a baby who passed away before she was even born. I have a close friend who’s mother had a stillborn 11 months before her; also a girl. She was spoken about- but not everyday, she wasn’t expected to acknowledge her at every single birthday, family celebration etc but if SHE wanted to talk about her and ask questions her mum had no problem with that. I just don’t see Vera growing up with a healthy relationship with Joan. I’ve never seen her just say “wow I’m lucky to have this child! Wow we are so lucky to be parents!” Yes of course she is very unlucky to have lost another baby but that seems to be the number one narrative in her life- her sadness for Maeve always overpowering her happiness for Vera.

Sorry for this long and hormonal rant! I just can’t help but worry for Veras sanity, the more that this escalates. Joan always says how healthy grieving is (and I completely agree!) but this isn’t a healthy way to grieve by anyone’s standards. Joan, let your living child LIVE.


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This. So eloquently said and so close to Joan's situation, someone needs to send it to her, to open her eyes to the truth.
I am so sorry for your loss but so happy for your pregnancy. X

[FlowersTar 68]

Just so you all know and hadn't forgotten, it's Happy Birthday Maeve day today

[Playsinrain]

Honestly, Joan's IG is actually starting to affect me negatively. I don't know why I still follow her. It is just depressing. I am so hyper-aware of my pregnancy and last week when I was the same gestation as she was when she lost Maeve I actually acknowledged how lucky I am that I still could feel my baby moving and everything was all right. She makes it seem like stillbirth is far more common than it is. Maybe that's more of a me problem than an issue with her.

Ordering live butterflies is disgusting and animal cruelty - yes, I consider butterflies animals. They are living creatures that just want to be left alone like any other wild animal. I'm sure many of them arrived dead in that box. Why inflict torment on innocent creatures to acknowledge the passing of your child?

I'm baffled by the butterfly bit, why doesn't she order some foxes and set them off into the wild? *rolls eyes
Good point with the butterflies being dead when they arrive, but then again that fits the narrative of a dead baby. Sorry if that sounds harsh and offensive to anyone here but she makes me angry too. Maeve didn't live outside the womb, yes remember her but don't throw a party! It's like throwing a party every year on someone who has lived's birthday. You wouldn't, would you?!

And ordering a size 4T big sister shirt.... wtf?! First, why do that to yourself? Is she going to continue this trend every year? Will we see her buy a car for Maeve at 16? A graduation gown at 18?
Second, this behavior just shows what an unhealthy place Joan continues to remain at.

I really am curious if the family are all at this same mentality, or if they placate her because it’s the easier option?


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When my son graduated HS last week they acknowledged a family that had lost their daughter several years ago that would have graduated that day. Gave the family a cap and gown and an honorary diploma. I thought that was a nice gesture and i had seen it happen before with kids who had passed during their HS years.. (to be honest, i didn't know the girl or the family and when i googled her name out of curiosity i couldn't find an obit for her. Found one for her grandfather, mentioning her name as someone who proceeded him in death and that was dated 2012, so she passed before that...) The first thing i thought about it (and this lets you know how Joan has gotten into my head) was that i wonder if Joan will expect this? I wonder if she will show up to graduation at the school she would have graduated from with the fox dressed in a cap and gown and take photos.. i would not put something like that past her for a second.

[minmouse]

Joan continuing with her pain olympics/ they love more deeply than anyone else bc they lost Maeve. Whatever... I roll my eyes so hard at her version and high opinion of herself. And I laughed out loud at this part of her post "Because of you we find joy in difficult situations". Yeah, because you dropped all friendships and didn't go to any family holidays or events bc they were too difficult. I wouldn't say removing everyone and everything from your life is finding the joy in anything. She really does forget all the pathetic details she's shared. She says whatever she feels at the moment to fit the narrative she wants.

[FlowersTar 68]

They've carved Maeve's name on a tree.... she's going to crack again when the bark gets weathered and chips off!

[SassySassenach]

They've carved Maeve's name on a tree.... she's going to crack again when the bark gets weathered and chips off!

These people are nuts. Let’s deface a tree, potentially harm it... instead of planting a new tree with a little plaque.

So much backward thinking. Will Vera get her name carved on a tree on her birthday?? Will she get hundred of dollars worth of butterflies?? Come on Joan, you have to parent fairly and equally.


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[FlowersTar 68]

Maeve's bench says it all Joan, "Born Sleeping" She did not live.

[1000Words]

After ALL the fuss she's put up over being triggered by old friends who got pregnant/not being able to be around their children, she has the audacity to post this.

What had she posted???

She cut so many people off in real life I have Never ever seen a picture of her with her old friends with babies.... only these new playgroup breastfeeding friends