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I may be in the minority on this, but I can’t stand the term “loss mom”. When we create this grief construct & lock people into it, how will they ever get out of that?
Joan is literally defining her life with loss, and unfortunately she is surrounding herself with people who enable that behavior. It’s not healthy & I doubt she’s even seeing a counselor anymore. You would think with her history, the IVF people would make a mental health screening a requirement.
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Exactly, say if you were a small child and you lost both parents you wouldn't define yourself as an orphan forever would you?
Actually, I probably would. Being orphan is way more traumatizing (if we are playing Joan's game of pain Olympics) than being an adult not having a child. An adult has way more coping and survival mechanisms than a vulnerable child. The child who grows up without parents (even if they had good foster parents), will grow up drastically different than child with parents. That difference impacts growing child's entire the personality, because the child is still growing and creating its own personality and identity.
An adult who is a ''loss'' mom, should already had grown up and created a personality and identity. That loss will take part of it, but will not mold that person into totally something else.
I hope you understood my meaning. I'm not the best at explaining things.
Yeah, I get it, totally understand what you're saying and of course it would affect you but you wouldn't make it your mission to tell the world (ie the Internet) at any given opportunity like Joan does. I think that's what I was trying to compare it to. Lol, I'm sometimes not good at explaining things either.
FlowersTar 68 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:36 pm
Exactly, say if you were a small child and you lost both parents you wouldn't define yourself as an orphan forever would you?
Actually, I probably would. Being orphan is way more traumatizing (if we are playing Joan's game of pain Olympics) than being an adult not having a child. An adult has way more coping and survival mechanisms than a vulnerable child. The child who grows up without parents (even if they had good foster parents), will grow up drastically different than child with parents. That difference impacts growing child's entire the personality, because the child is still growing and creating its own personality and identity.
An adult who is a ''loss'' mom, should already had grown up and created a personality and identity. That loss will take part of it, but will not mold that person into totally something else.
I hope you understood my meaning. I'm not the best at explaining things.
Yeah, I get it, totally understand what you're saying and of course it would affect you but you wouldn't make it your mission to tell the world (ie the Internet) at any given opportunity like Joan does. I think that's what I was trying to compare it to. Lol, I'm sometimes not good at explaining things either.
Yeah, you are right too, I've never heard anyone shout ''from the rooftops'' that they are an orphan **pity me** ...
She is totally doing her thing to get sympathy and ''get out of jail free'' - card for anything she does.
Im sorry , but this lady needs some real help with her mental state. Instead of dropping off money to have another IVF cycle she needs to go to a shrink and get her head in the right space. I feel so bad for Vera . She will always live in the shadow of her dead sister. It will always be Maeve would have done this if she had lived but you get to.. I know Joan is hurting, I never lost a child so I wont say I know how she feels but come on. You have a living ,healthy child. Let her be Vera and not Maeve part 2..
I hope it doesn't fail for one....ONE....reason. If they don't conceive or are not able to carry a third baby to term...Vera. Poor, poor Vera will forever live in the shadows of Maeve and the sibling that was the last hope. She'll NEVER live up to her own potential because "Vera will never have a sibling and that could have changed so much about her and we'll never know what she could have been with a sibling. She's lost two siblings!!"
Vera can't be just Vera. She's Vera who should have had Maeve. Vera who needs a sibling. Potentially Vera who's never going to have a sibling.
This isn't guessing. From Joan's own comments she doesn't see Vera for her own self. It's Maeve's little sister.
Does any more experienced mama knows what kind of sandals Vera is wearing in the new pics? I’m happy she’s finally being let on the ground to move (just noticed in other pics she’s always simply barefoot) but it doesn’t look like the ones we here usually put on babies who are newly walking. Specially if they need pt. They are usually have a lot more hold, these just look...idk, flimsy?
Akersik wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:33 am
Does any more experienced mama knows what kind of sandals Vera is wearing in the new pics? I’m happy she’s finally being let on the ground to move (just noticed in other pics she’s always simply barefoot) but it doesn’t look like the ones we here usually put on babies who are newly walking. Specially if they need pt. They are usually have a lot more hold, these just look...idk, flimsy?
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So, I showed a coworker who had never heard of these people the "first day of pre-k" picture, and gave her the most minimal background. The first thing she said: "that poor little girl is going to spend her whole life in the shadow of her dead sister!" Someone with the most basic "this woman had a stillbirth, which is horrible and sad, but then she had a healthy baby, and now she is posting stuff like this", back story, gets how weird this is, and how wrong it is for Vera to have to live like this. How can no one close to them see it?
I go back and forth about the benefits to Vera of having a living sibling. On the one hand, it might be nice for her to have someone to share the burden. But it's not fair to bring another innocent life into that deep, deep dysfunction. Especially with the throwing John under the bus on social media. If Joan says those things on an Instagram account with tons of followers, how bad is the stuff she doesn't share?
So to drop off the check did they yet again bring Vera inside? Wasn’t that a big trigger for Joan? Oh, I forgot, do as I say not as I do. Is that right Joan?
lwilson1081 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:11 pm
So to drop off the check did they yet again bring Vera inside? Wasn’t that a big trigger for Joan? Oh, I forgot, do as I say not as I do. Is that right Joan?
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That was my thought too. What if she walked out of that office after possibly being given bad news and saw a mad woman and toddler jumping and squealing around outside? I'd be fuming, and I know Joan would too!
lmmomSD wrote:So, I showed a coworker who had never heard of these people the "first day of pre-k" picture, and gave her the most minimal background. The first thing she said: "that poor little girl is going to spend her whole life in the shadow of her dead sister!" Someone with the most basic "this woman had a stillbirth, which is horrible and sad, but then she had a healthy baby, and now she is posting stuff like this", back story, gets how weird this is, and how wrong it is for Vera to have to live like this. How can no one close to them see it?
I go back and forth about the benefits to Vera of having a living sibling. On the one hand, it might be nice for her to have someone to share the burden. But it's not fair to bring another innocent life into that deep, deep dysfunction. Especially with the throwing John under the bus on social media. If Joan says those things on an Instagram account with tons of followers, how bad is the stuff she doesn't share?
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I showed it to my husband - he's a therapist - and he said "Damn, they need some serious help."
....he also asked if they were the same people who ate their baby lol
She literally just had a big debate about who can call their baby a rainbow and who can’t and by her standards she does not fall into the category of calling this next baby a rainbow baby. God for bid you call her out on it because she’ll block you. Freaking hypocrite.
FlowersTar 68 wrote:Yeah, so you can block them Joan if they say something slightly out of turn.
This is laughable. If she has any plans to grow her YouTube, she just killed all that. Heaven forbid that Joan, who has offended plenty of people, has to be subjected to anything that she could misconstrue as offensive and “haters”.
Yeah I saw that too. She removes me from seeing her account because I called her out about the “nasty finger” that she posted on her story. But here she is yet again telling people what they shouldn’t be saying. She’s such a hypocrite. She needs to stop following all the loss mom accounts. It’s not healthy, it’s not helping her to move forward with her life. Nobody’s telling her to forget about Maeve. She should absolutely celebrate and remember her daughter. I have no problem with that. But the fact of the matter is Maeve is not here, Joan is only parenting one child. ONE. At this point I believe she’s only doing it for attention. She is addicted to the mourning and loss “lifestyle” that she has immersed herself in. She might as well still be laying in bed crying every day. And don’t get me wrong I don’t mean to sound cruel. I hate what happened to her and I would never wish that on my worst enemy. It is truly awful, I feel so sorry for her. But Joan, it’s time to grow up and be the mom to Vera that you’re supposed to be. And for gods sake put the fox up on the shelf and leave it there.
FlowersTar 68 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am
If you, Joan, hadn't swaddled her and never put her down then maybe she would have had muscle tone and not needed any physical therapy.
I don’t believe Joan was the cause of Vera’s issues. There are some cultures that swaddle their babies all day every day and they turn out fine (not that that’s recommended). There are a lot of things to criticize Joan about, but I do not believe that she was so neglectful that she would cause her daughter to need physical therapy.
FlowersTar 68 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am
If you, Joan, hadn't swaddled her and never put her down then maybe she would have had muscle tone and not needed any physical therapy.
I don’t believe Joan was the cause of Vera’s issues. There are some cultures that swaddle their babies all day every day and they turn out fine (not that that’s recommended). There are a lot of things to criticize Joan about, but I do not believe that she was so neglectful that she would cause her daughter to need physical therapy.
She definitely never helped though. She was always holding Vera. Never just put her down to explore by herself.
GGF1987 wrote:
I used to really like Joan and I still feel terrible for her loss and for what she went through.
But Joan has shown on many occasions she isn't mentally right and that she has zero empathy for anyone else and she's not above using her her sob story over and over and over to take money from people under the pretense of using it for one thing and then not doing. She's always making comments about how her pain is worse than others. She has awarded herself the title of judge of the pain Olympics and she always awards herself the gold, silver, and bronze, while judging other people's pain and telling them they don't have the right to feel the way they feel about whatever is in their life because she's had it worse. She's taken money for a book, she never wrote. She's now raising more money for IVF after saying just a few months ago that the money she raised was enough to cover it and now suddenly it isn't. She claims to donate money but never says how much or does anything to prove that money she took from other people is actually being donated anywhere but to her bank account. She multiple times used her Instagram to gripe about her husband and to gripe about how he is as a father. She threw him under the bus and posted all about a huge fight they had all over social media a few weeks ago. She is neither healthy nor is she a good person. She uses and abuses everyone in her life.
My biggest issue though is that I am worried for Vera. She doesn't see Vera for Vera. She doesn't treat Vera as her own person, she treats Vera as nothing but Maeve's little sister. She can't celebrate any milestone in Vera's life without bringing up Maeve. She can't even take her to the flipping beach without bringing a bag along that say's "Maeve's Mom" and putting it in the pictures with her. She couldn't even give Vera a first birthday party with a cute little theme that was about her, it had to be rainbow theme because once again her loss and her pain is more important than Vera and her milestones. Vera has no idea what is going on now but she will eventually and never being able to be her own person and always having to do this that or the other for a sister she's never met and who never lived at all, is going to do nothing but screw her up. Is she going to have to take back to school pictures every year with Maeve's board? Where does it end and how is it fair to put that on a child?
It's clear that Joan thought Vera would fill this hole and fix her problems and that's not what happened and so now she's going to try to bring another child into this situation. Joan went through something horrible and she's entitled to her grief. But there is healthy way to handle that grief and she's never gotten the mental help she needs to get to that point. She is still back there 4 years ago when Maeve first died and that's not healthy for her or John or most importantly for Vera. It makes me just as mad at John that he's turned a blind eye to it and is letting his daughter be treated the way Joan treats her and lets his daughter see the way Joan treats him and that he is allowing her to try to bring another child into this mess. Vera doesn't need a sibling. She needs her mother to get healthy and she needs a father who will stand up for her and push for that to happen.
THIS!!!
You brought up a really good point about her relationship with John. If he's such a terrible father who doesn't do anything right, WHY is she trying so hard to have another child with him?
You expressed what most of us feel so perfectly.
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She's still searching for a quick fix for issues. I can't help but wonder with how bad she represents their relationship online, how much worse is it behind closed doors? I have a feeling it's worse than any of us could imagine.
John and Joan both seem
To have mental illness.... John has to be bipolar, Christ they broke up when she was pregnant with Maeve and he wouldn’t even go to all the appointments!!!! Lest we forget those minor details... or the fact that John is obsessed with cartoons and is stuck in his own mess as an adult child.
Then Joan and we all know her issues are awful. I just Can’t believe they are going to try for another baby.
They haven’t even focused on Vera!!!!! It’s always Maeve Maeve Maeve..
If this IVF is successful I wonder how she will be as a mom, I fear Vera will be pushed aside once again as this one truly will be the miracle last chance baby therefore will have most of the attention just like Maeve is.
