8 Passengers: Emotional Abuse Galore & Making Kids Sleep on The Floor | Part 17

[Liz_444]

I can't read the Inside article due to my ad blocker. Can you comment on the article, or is it just to read?

[plum_spectacle]

I don’t know if the author of this article is trying to use that to say what Kevin and Ruby do is the natural consequences option which is the good option. Because it is extremely clear that Ruby’s method is discipline and punishment, and she goes on a total power trip with it, so to me that paints them in a bad light.

I'm not sure about the authors intention either, but 7 months without a bed (for sure, it was just his choice) screaming of punishment and discipline.
A natural outcome of his behavior would have been for Chad, to leave the shared for pranking his brother for this very night and try to find a better option the next morning.
Their old house didn't let them have much space for many choices but after they had moved were plenty enough rooms to provide privacy for Chad while keeping the boys separated.
Even the poor excuse that they had to share a room doing Russels room remodeling, (russel could have slept in Eves room while this time, For example) seems unreasonable. Because there were months between moving in, remodeling Russels room and the exposure of Chads sleeping situation (and lack of privacy).
That's punishment and discipline!

And WOW to Eves lunch story.
At first Ruby said Eve had lied to her about packing her lunch when she didn't and now it is just that Eve packed her lunch but she simply forgot to do the last step, to bring it with her into the car.
When did the conversation happened when Eve had lied to Ruby about packing her lunch, bevore or after she forgot to take her lunch into the car?
There is really no hope for Kevin and Ruby to gain some self-reflection. How sad.

But it's easing to hear about them loosing sponsors.

The only person of the griffiths-and-spouses-big-wholesome-fam I would be happy to know to have sponsors is Joel Hoellein. And really not because he's sympathic by any means but he wasn't exposing his children on his channel, so far.
And remodeling a meth house with sponsored tools is kind of solid.

[Gigi7]

I can't read the Inside article due to my ad blocker. Can you comment on the article, or is it just to read?

Here is the whole article:

Ruby and Kevin Franke's lives took an unexpectedly dark turn about four weeks ago. When Ruby posted a video on their family YouTube channel, 8 Passengers, where she and her kids spoke about some of the things they'd been through recently, she never thought it would backfire and cause weeks of turmoil for their whole family.

Something her 15-year-old son, Chad, said turned out to be a particularly contentious issue for viewers. It sparked accusations of abuse, death threats, and a visit from child protective services.

"My bedroom was taken away for seven months," Chad said in the video. "I was sleeping on a beanbag since October."

He said he lost his room after playing pranks on his little brother, Russell, including getting him to pack a suitcase for a fake Disneyland trip and hanging him from a basketball hoop. He was living in the same room as Russell but was taken out on a therapist's recommendation, giving him the option to sleep on a pullout guest bed or an inflatable mattress, or somewhere else in the house.

8 Passengers
Russell, Julie, Abby, Chad, Ruby, Kevin, Eve, and Shari in a photo provided to Insider. Ruby and Kevin Franke
Ruby told Insider that the previous video showed how thrilled Chad was to have a room again.

"He had done a bedroom reveal where he was excited that he put LED lights up in his bedroom and he was hanging puzzles on his wall that he had put together and glued," Ruby told Insider. "It never occurred to him that it would turn on us."

Where the accusations of child abuse started
The Frankes have nearly 2.5 million subscribers on their channel, which follows the lives of Kevin and Ruby and their six children: Shari, 17, Chad, 15, Abby, 13, Julie, 11, Russell, 8, and Eve, 6.

The video, called "What we haven't told you," has been deleted. But Kevin told Insider it was a moment of vulnerability and part of Chad's "story of redemption" that showed his "victory over the challenges that he's faced over the last several years."

"The people who've been following us this whole time ... they would have perceived it as such," he said. "The problem is when individuals who aren't familiar with the narrative don't get the entire story, they fill in the unknown with their own narrative. And that's really where this blew up."


Drama channels on YouTube and TikTokers soon started accusing the Frankes of child abuse. They thought Chad had been removed from his bedroom and given a beanbag on the floor as punishment for the pranks, describing it as a cruel and disproportionate form of discipline.

They also trawled their past videos — over five years' worth — to find any other evidence of mistreatment.

If you search "8 Passengers" on YouTube, you'll be met with a string of videos "exposing" the Frankes and calling them "toxic" and "abusive" toward their kids. Some creators were upset that the Frankes sent cease-and-desist letters to have these videos taken down.

Harsh punishments deeply affect children
It makes sense that people would be upset by what they perceive as such a harsh punishment. According to parenting experts, severe discipline can be profoundly damaging for a child in the long term.

Maryhan Baker, a psychologist who has worked with parents for 15 years, told Insider that it often leads to the child not really understanding what they did wrong and repeating the behavior.

"It is simply concerned with getting the child to conform to a set of predetermined, often poorly communicated, and ever-changing set of goalposts, so the child is almost doomed to fail," she said. "Children make choices with their behavior based on their emotions, and if you don't seek to understand and discuss these emotions, the child ends up storing up a host of resentment and anger at the very least."

More worryingly, she said, they can develop a poor sense of self-worth and a fear of abandonment.

Sophie Niedermaier-Patramani, a pediatrician and cofounder of Little Tummy, told Insider that parents often resort to harsh punishment when they are struggling to moderate bad behavior. They tend to be at their wits' end, feeling exhausted, overwhelmed, and unsure of what else to do. It's tough on both parties but can lead to severe behavioral issues as the child grows up.

"If you punish incoherently, it will be difficult for them to establish relationships later on in life and moderate their own behavior later on as well," she said.

"And if we look at brain function, a neurotransmitter is secreted when something like reward or punishment happens. Punishment sets free a stress reaction in our brain, which actually hinders learning."

8 passengers ruby chad
Chad and Ruby. 8 Passengers / YouTube
Learning about the consequences of your actions
Baker said that punishing a child by taking away their bed would be incredibly upsetting — as illustrated by Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we all seek a sense of safety and security in our environment, and taking away a bed "strips this out entirely and actually leaves the child in trauma."

Punishment doesn't have any place in modern parenting, she said, and children only really learn about their actions when they are taught about outcomes. For instance, a person who fails to submit work on time could lose their job — in a child's world, this might be missing a bedtime story if they don't go to bed early enough.

"There are natural consequences to every choice we make, and if we communicate these when children make poor choices in behavior, the learning is profound," she said. "This way the child learns their choices have a direct impact."

Discipline and punishment are all about power and authority, while thinking about the consequences provides autonomy and gives the child an opportunity for growth.

"When our focus is more about making choices with our behavior and these choices having consequences, we completely change the dynamic to one of a discussion around freedom to make better choices next time," Baker said. "We have to be clear that our role as parents is to help our children grow up into adults able to navigate the world successfully."


'We give our children choice in everything'
Ruby and Kevin said Chad was being taught the consequences of his actions when he was told to sleep somewhere other than his little brother's room.

Kevin said the decision came amid "years of physical and emotional damaging behavior" that Chad was participating in with his siblings and classmates that ended up getting him suspended from school. This was also why he was sent to the Anasazi Foundation's Wilderness Therapy Program, which says it provides "intervention services for troubled teens," for 10 weeks.

Chad and Russell slept in the same room shortly after they moved because one bedroom was being redecorated, but therapists and psychological professionals recommended they be separated. Chad was given a variety of choices of where he could sleep, including a pullout guest bed, an inflatable mattress, and a beanbag.

"What people aren't understanding is that we give our children choice in everything," Ruby said. "We are teaching our children to be self-governing, so it was always very open with our son that he gets to choose how long he's separate from his brother, dependent upon his behavior."

The Frankes said Chad chose the beanbag because he found it the most comfortable. He also removed the doors to the room in an effort to be transparent and help regain his parents' trust, they said.

"I said, 'Well, if that's your choice, I'll support you in that,'" Ruby said. "'But at any point, you can move around. You just can't be sleeping with your brother.'"

8 Passengers
The whole family. Ruby and Kevin Franke
Ruby said that as soon as Chad's behavior changed, he would be able to go sleep in his new room — something "he knew the whole time."

"It just happened to take seven months for him to make that choice," she said.

The full story is Chad's to tell, the Frankes said, and he may choose to when he's older. For now, he's decided to stay off social media because he found it toxic and disconnecting. Ruby said she even asked Chad whether he wanted her to cut out the conversation about his bedroom in the video because of how raw and vulnerable it was.

"He said, 'No, I am open to sharing this,'" she said, though she added that if she "had foreseen the anger," she probably would have cut it out.

Kevin and Ruby received backlash after their 6-year-old daughter went to school without lunch
Another narrative that appeared in drama videos was that Ruby was starving their 6-year-old daughter, Eve, because she forgot her packed lunch one day.

In a vlog at the time, Ruby said the teacher told her she was uncomfortable with Eve being hungry and would prefer she drove her lunch over.

"But I responded and said, 'Eve is responsible for making her own lunches in the morning, so the natural outcome is she is just going to be hungry,'" Ruby said in the video. "And hopefully nobody gives her food and nobody steps in and gives her lunch."

The YouTube channel Tea Spill shared this clip and explained why many people were disturbed by it.

"Instead of being concerned for her young daughter, she says to the vlog that she hopes no one shares their lunch with her to teach her some sort of sick lesson," the narrator of the video said. "And just remember this kid is literally 6 years old."

In response, the Frankes told Insider the clip didn't show that the children go to a school that's a 45-minute drive from their house and that Eve had two hours left of school that day.

"My heart broke for her," Ruby said. "And I told her, 'Oh honey, my darling, I am so sorry. You're going to be hungry. And I am so uncomfortable with this with you. I'm going to be uncomfortable alongside you because I know you are so capable of picking up your lunch off the front-door rug and taking it with you when you go get in the car.'"

8 Passengers
Eve and Chad. Kevin and Ruby Franke
Kevin said all the children were taught how to prepare lunch when they reached Eve's age. They go to the pantry and collect a food bar, a drink, and some other snacks; pick up a ready-made sandwich and piece of fruit from the fridge; then put it all in a bag and take it to school. This day, Eve simply forgot to pick hers up.

"She came home two hours later and had a wonderful, fulfilling snack," Kevin said. "And you know what? She never forgot her lunch again. So it's a way to teach our children how to live responsibly and to be masters of themselves rather than dependent upon somebody else to always take care of them."

The same logic goes for when the kids use their phones or tablets irresponsibly and have them taken away, he said. Some viewers took issue with the children not having access to their phones and accused the parents of isolating them from their friends. But Ruby and Kevin see it as a way to ensure they learn to be responsible and not to be dependent on screens.

"Having that need for electronics is the introduction into disconnect," Ruby said. "And that is why people are so uncomfortable with me showing a connected family. It rubs them against their shame, and they project what they're seeing onto me."

'It was just so malicious'
Ruby and Kevin said they weren't prepared for the backlash against them. Not only were established gossip channels like Tea Spill and Spill Sesh reporting the story, but new accounts were springing up because they knew it was a trending topic that could get them hundreds of thousands of views.

The couple said some accounts purposefully took clips out of context, such as a video where Ruby and Kevin installed a bidet in their bathroom during a recent toilet-roll shortage.

"The master bathroom is off-limits to the kids, but they have five other bathrooms in the house that they have access to," Ruby said. "And I had made a comment: 'Well, you could do some extra chores around the house so that you can come and use the bathroom.'"

Without the context of the full video, this clip could make it sound as if Ruby allowed her children to go to the bathroom only if they did housework. But she was saying the kids could use the master bathroom with the bidet as a kind of reward for completing their chores.

"It was just so malicious," she said. "They knew what they were doing was out of context. They were purely seeking to throw hate. That was their only objective. A reasonable person would not have seen that video and thought, 'She is a child abuser.'"

8 Passengers
The Franke family. Ruby and Kevin Franke
The narrative about abusive parenting was a powerful one. It's everyone's prerogative to agree or disagree with a family's parenting style, but it's quite another to accuse them of something as severe as child abuse. While some videos were made out of genuine concern, plenty were not.

"All of this is really ironic," Kevin said. "So many of these individuals are coming and they're intending to do us harm by accusing us of exploiting children for money, yet they are here exploiting my children and my family for their own personal gain."

He said they'd seen everything from death threats to attempts to get him fired from his job as a university professor of engineering. Companies have torn up their sponsorship contracts after viewers contacted them, and their children have received messages telling them to kill themselves, they said.

"Does that sound like they're really worried about child abuse?" Ruby said. "It does not sound consistent with what they're saying, and it's because they're not being honest about their motives."

Child protective services showed up at their house
The Division of Child and Family Services in Utah, where the Frankes live, showed up to their house about a week ago after one viewer set up a Change.org petition. The workers visited with each of the children individually over the two hours they were there, Kevin said.

"When they walked in unannounced, Eve and Ruby were baking bread together and doing a puzzle," Kevin said. "Hardly the evidence of an abusive home."

A letter from DCFS seen by Insider said the case, which alleged that Ruby was the perpetrator, was closed because the claims were unsupported.

Kevin said the workers said they were embarrassed they had to visit at all and apologized for the stress inflicted on the family.


Kevin and Ruby said that while their lives were far from ruined, the past few weeks had certainly knocked them.

Ruby said she had a lot more empathy and compassion for people who find themselves in the heat of a scandal on social media because it can really harm a person's mental health.

"People who aren't in a healthy mindset, it could drive someone to suicide, easily," she said. "I can see now, having gone through it, that it could take your life."

'My kids are so strong'
Kevin said he "can't express" how proud he is of all his children.

Ruby said the kids had told her that they prayed for everyone who was sending negativity their way. One of her daughters told her that people were spreading rumors only because they were looking for acceptance.

"My kids are so strong," she said. "They are amazing. And they have come together and have even prayed for our enemies. These people who are hating on us, they pray that they will feel the love that they are searching for."

As for Chad, Kevin said he was in a "wonderful place right now," with a good group of friends and a healthy outlook on life where he "holds high standards and high boundaries."

"He's definitely not chained in our basement," he said.

[red3head]

The conversation in the article about eve’s lunch is actually the conversation she had with Russell when he forgot his lunch. I don’t think eve called home about it. Didn’t the teacher email her?

I don’t necessarily thinks it’s abuse to the child for skipping a lunch for 1 day. I would just want to make sure my kindergarten child was fed for the sake of the teacher. Dealing with a hungry kid is no fun


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lmmomSD]

I don’t know if the author of this article is trying to use that to say what Kevin and Ruby do is the natural consequences option which is the good option. Because it is extremely clear that Ruby’s method is discipline and punishment, and she goes on a total power trip with it, so to me that paints them in a bad light.

I'm not sure about the authors intention either, but 7 months without a bed (for sure, it was just his choice) screaming of punishment and discipline.
A natural outcome of his behavior would have been for Chad, to leave the shared for pranking his brother for this very night and try to find a better option the next morning.
Their old house didn't let them have much space for many choices but after they had moved were plenty enough rooms to provide privacy for Chad while keeping the boys separated.
Even the poor excuse that they had to share a room doing Russels room remodeling, (russel could have slept in Eves room while this time, For example) seems unreasonable. Because there were months between moving in, remodeling Russels room and the exposure of Chads sleeping situation (and lack of privacy).
That's punishment and discipline!

And WOW to Eves lunch story.
At first Ruby said Eve had lied to her about packing her lunch when she didn't and now it is just that Eve packed her lunch but she simply forgot to do the last step, to bring it with her into the car.
When did the conversation happened when Eve had lied to Ruby about packing her lunch, bevore or after she forgot to take her lunch into the car?
There is really no hope for Kevin and Ruby to gain some self-reflection. How sad.

But it's easing to hear about them loosing sponsors.

The only person of the griffiths-and-spouses-big-wholesome-fam I would be happy to know to have sponsors is Joel Hoellein. And really not because he's sympathic by any means but he wasn't exposing his children on his channel, so far.
And remodeling a meth house with sponsored tools is kind of solid.

Joel was editing the vlogs for the last year or so. So he is just as culpable as Bonnie.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[plum_spectacle]

The conversation in the article about eve’s lunch is actually the conversation she had with Russell when he forgot his lunch. I don’t think eve called home about it. Didn’t the teacher email her?

I don’t necessarily thinks it’s abuse to the child for skipping a lunch for 1 day. I would just want to make sure my kindergarten child was fed for the sake of the teacher. Dealing with a hungry kid is no fun


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only one time isn't concerning, I agree, but in this video Ruby said that it happened often. That's what I don't get. Now it was just one time. Yeah, shame on all of us, poor Ruby is misunderstood.

But both of them only made up excuses for the two incidents.

[puzzledbyit28]

Saying this as someone who used to work in journalism, an article in Business Insider is a joke. It's basically advertising--it used to be one of the go-to places to freelance if you couldn't get steady work because they'll take anything. Forbes is the same way. I bet Ruby and Kevin pitched the story to BI. Nobody reads it, and nobody will take it seriously, especially given the lazy journalism in the article itself.

[YTIG60]

If you've watched their channel, this is an amazing article that has rewritten history. Didn't DaddyofFive try to improve their family image and failed?

I have several questions this article failed to cover.
1. Where is a comment from YouTube since it is their social media platform they are using?
2. Have companies return to advertising with them? (and how would this Business Insider article help?)
3. How did this impact Kevin's employer/employment?
4. Who are the therapist(s) that advised them on having a child sleep on a bean bag for seven months?
5. No comment from Anasazi Foundation's Wilderness Therapy Program. Why?

I think this article has done more harm than good since most of their viewers have seen these vlogs. Also, on IG there are very few responses since they have limited comments on. Their views are down and I doubt advertisers are going to want to attach themselves to a channel where there is a petition from moms requesting a CPS intervention. Why they continue YouTube is amazing when you are risking Kevin's job - who needs an impeccable reputation as a professor teaching young adults. A good lawyer would tell them to shut down all their social media platforms...and maybe he or she did?

[Josette]

https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-yo ... ily-2020-6

I think you all need to read this. Damage control springs to mind!

Yep! I don't believe for a second that Chad was giving other bed options nor that he took the doors down himself. LIES LIES LIES, BSing LIES!

[Gigi7]

https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-yo ... ily-2020-6

I think you all need to read this. Damage control springs to mind!

Yep! I don't believe for a second that Chad was giving other bed options nor that he took the doors down himself. LIES LIES LIES, BSing LIES!

The thing is, we misunderstand her.

When she said that she hopes Eve goes hungry and nobody gives her any food, she meant she will be uncomfortable for her.
When she said that Eve told her she packed a lunch but didn’t and lied about it and it happened before, she meant that she forgot to grab her lunch bag.

When Chad said she took away his bed for 7 months, he meant that he couldn’t share a room with Russell and decided to sleep on a bean bag in the living room. When given his room back, he decided that he liked sleeping in the living room so he would take the door to feel more open. And he also took the bathroom door cause it didn’t make sense to keep that door either.

When she said she doesn’t tuck her kids in bed and they sleep in their school uniforms without having a shower or a bath for days, she meant she reads them stories and sings them to sleep.

When her kids said they have no friends, they meant they have plenty of friends just not neighbor friends cause they just moved.

When Abby said she took her phone away and probably won’t get it back EVER, she meant she doesn’t like her kids looking at a screen for so long and living in a virtual world. And Shari is allowed a phone because, well she’s not a kid.

When she said Julie was neglected and was crying and smelled of pee, she meant to say that she just needed a diaper change.

When she said that Russell had a femur fracture gone unnoticed for days, she meant that she had it checked immediately by doctors who recommended to wait for x rays.

When she threw away all of Chads things and clothes she meant to give him a fresh start. When she gave him no backpack to go back to school, she thought target bags were in and he would look so cool.

When grabbed Eves stuffed animal and threatened to behead it, she meant to repair it.

There aren’t enough lies in the world to make right all of her “mistakes”. Which she wouldn’t consider as such, but was probably advised to remove all of these things. How she listened to someone else’s advice is beyond me, but probably a church leader

[Liz_444]

I can't read the Inside article due to my ad blocker. Can you comment on the article, or is it just to read?

Here is the whole article:

Ruby and Kevin Franke's lives took an unexpectedly dark turn about four weeks ago. When Ruby posted a video on their family YouTube channel, 8 Passengers, where she and her kids spoke about some of the things they'd been through recently, she never thought it would backfire and cause weeks of turmoil for their whole family.

Something her 15-year-old son, Chad, said turned out to be a particularly contentious issue for viewers. It sparked accusations of abuse, death threats, and a visit from child protective services.

"My bedroom was taken away for seven months," Chad said in the video. "I was sleeping on a beanbag since October."

He said he lost his room after playing pranks on his little brother, Russell, including getting him to pack a suitcase for a fake Disneyland trip and hanging him from a basketball hoop. He was living in the same room as Russell but was taken out on a therapist's recommendation, giving him the option to sleep on a pullout guest bed or an inflatable mattress, or somewhere else in the house.

8 Passengers
Russell, Julie, Abby, Chad, Ruby, Kevin, Eve, and Shari in a photo provided to Insider. Ruby and Kevin Franke
Ruby told Insider that the previous video showed how thrilled Chad was to have a room again.

"He had done a bedroom reveal where he was excited that he put LED lights up in his bedroom and he was hanging puzzles on his wall that he had put together and glued," Ruby told Insider. "It never occurred to him that it would turn on us."

Where the accusations of child abuse started
The Frankes have nearly 2.5 million subscribers on their channel, which follows the lives of Kevin and Ruby and their six children: Shari, 17, Chad, 15, Abby, 13, Julie, 11, Russell, 8, and Eve, 6.

The video, called "What we haven't told you," has been deleted. But Kevin told Insider it was a moment of vulnerability and part of Chad's "story of redemption" that showed his "victory over the challenges that he's faced over the last several years."

"The people who've been following us this whole time ... they would have perceived it as such," he said. "The problem is when individuals who aren't familiar with the narrative don't get the entire story, they fill in the unknown with their own narrative. And that's really where this blew up."


Drama channels on YouTube and TikTokers soon started accusing the Frankes of child abuse. They thought Chad had been removed from his bedroom and given a beanbag on the floor as punishment for the pranks, describing it as a cruel and disproportionate form of discipline.

They also trawled their past videos — over five years' worth — to find any other evidence of mistreatment.

If you search "8 Passengers" on YouTube, you'll be met with a string of videos "exposing" the Frankes and calling them "toxic" and "abusive" toward their kids. Some creators were upset that the Frankes sent cease-and-desist letters to have these videos taken down.

Harsh punishments deeply affect children
It makes sense that people would be upset by what they perceive as such a harsh punishment. According to parenting experts, severe discipline can be profoundly damaging for a child in the long term.

Maryhan Baker, a psychologist who has worked with parents for 15 years, told Insider that it often leads to the child not really understanding what they did wrong and repeating the behavior.

"It is simply concerned with getting the child to conform to a set of predetermined, often poorly communicated, and ever-changing set of goalposts, so the child is almost doomed to fail," she said. "Children make choices with their behavior based on their emotions, and if you don't seek to understand and discuss these emotions, the child ends up storing up a host of resentment and anger at the very least."

More worryingly, she said, they can develop a poor sense of self-worth and a fear of abandonment.

Sophie Niedermaier-Patramani, a pediatrician and cofounder of Little Tummy, told Insider that parents often resort to harsh punishment when they are struggling to moderate bad behavior. They tend to be at their wits' end, feeling exhausted, overwhelmed, and unsure of what else to do. It's tough on both parties but can lead to severe behavioral issues as the child grows up.

"If you punish incoherently, it will be difficult for them to establish relationships later on in life and moderate their own behavior later on as well," she said.

"And if we look at brain function, a neurotransmitter is secreted when something like reward or punishment happens. Punishment sets free a stress reaction in our brain, which actually hinders learning."

8 passengers ruby chad
Chad and Ruby. 8 Passengers / YouTube
Learning about the consequences of your actions
Baker said that punishing a child by taking away their bed would be incredibly upsetting — as illustrated by Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we all seek a sense of safety and security in our environment, and taking away a bed "strips this out entirely and actually leaves the child in trauma."

Punishment doesn't have any place in modern parenting, she said, and children only really learn about their actions when they are taught about outcomes. For instance, a person who fails to submit work on time could lose their job — in a child's world, this might be missing a bedtime story if they don't go to bed early enough.

"There are natural consequences to every choice we make, and if we communicate these when children make poor choices in behavior, the learning is profound," she said. "This way the child learns their choices have a direct impact."

Discipline and punishment are all about power and authority, while thinking about the consequences provides autonomy and gives the child an opportunity for growth.

"When our focus is more about making choices with our behavior and these choices having consequences, we completely change the dynamic to one of a discussion around freedom to make better choices next time," Baker said. "We have to be clear that our role as parents is to help our children grow up into adults able to navigate the world successfully."


'We give our children choice in everything'
Ruby and Kevin said Chad was being taught the consequences of his actions when he was told to sleep somewhere other than his little brother's room.

Kevin said the decision came amid "years of physical and emotional damaging behavior" that Chad was participating in with his siblings and classmates that ended up getting him suspended from school. This was also why he was sent to the Anasazi Foundation's Wilderness Therapy Program, which says it provides "intervention services for troubled teens," for 10 weeks.

Chad and Russell slept in the same room shortly after they moved because one bedroom was being redecorated, but therapists and psychological professionals recommended they be separated. Chad was given a variety of choices of where he could sleep, including a pullout guest bed, an inflatable mattress, and a beanbag.

"What people aren't understanding is that we give our children choice in everything," Ruby said. "We are teaching our children to be self-governing, so it was always very open with our son that he gets to choose how long he's separate from his brother, dependent upon his behavior."

The Frankes said Chad chose the beanbag because he found it the most comfortable. He also removed the doors to the room in an effort to be transparent and help regain his parents' trust, they said.

"I said, 'Well, if that's your choice, I'll support you in that,'" Ruby said. "'But at any point, you can move around. You just can't be sleeping with your brother.'"

8 Passengers
The whole family. Ruby and Kevin Franke
Ruby said that as soon as Chad's behavior changed, he would be able to go sleep in his new room — something "he knew the whole time."

"It just happened to take seven months for him to make that choice," she said.

The full story is Chad's to tell, the Frankes said, and he may choose to when he's older. For now, he's decided to stay off social media because he found it toxic and disconnecting. Ruby said she even asked Chad whether he wanted her to cut out the conversation about his bedroom in the video because of how raw and vulnerable it was.

"He said, 'No, I am open to sharing this,'" she said, though she added that if she "had foreseen the anger," she probably would have cut it out.

Kevin and Ruby received backlash after their 6-year-old daughter went to school without lunch
Another narrative that appeared in drama videos was that Ruby was starving their 6-year-old daughter, Eve, because she forgot her packed lunch one day.

In a vlog at the time, Ruby said the teacher told her she was uncomfortable with Eve being hungry and would prefer she drove her lunch over.

"But I responded and said, 'Eve is responsible for making her own lunches in the morning, so the natural outcome is she is just going to be hungry,'" Ruby said in the video. "And hopefully nobody gives her food and nobody steps in and gives her lunch."

The YouTube channel Tea Spill shared this clip and explained why many people were disturbed by it.

"Instead of being concerned for her young daughter, she says to the vlog that she hopes no one shares their lunch with her to teach her some sort of sick lesson," the narrator of the video said. "And just remember this kid is literally 6 years old."

In response, the Frankes told Insider the clip didn't show that the children go to a school that's a 45-minute drive from their house and that Eve had two hours left of school that day.

"My heart broke for her," Ruby said. "And I told her, 'Oh honey, my darling, I am so sorry. You're going to be hungry. And I am so uncomfortable with this with you. I'm going to be uncomfortable alongside you because I know you are so capable of picking up your lunch off the front-door rug and taking it with you when you go get in the car.'"

8 Passengers
Eve and Chad. Kevin and Ruby Franke
Kevin said all the children were taught how to prepare lunch when they reached Eve's age. They go to the pantry and collect a food bar, a drink, and some other snacks; pick up a ready-made sandwich and piece of fruit from the fridge; then put it all in a bag and take it to school. This day, Eve simply forgot to pick hers up.

"She came home two hours later and had a wonderful, fulfilling snack," Kevin said. "And you know what? She never forgot her lunch again. So it's a way to teach our children how to live responsibly and to be masters of themselves rather than dependent upon somebody else to always take care of them."

The same logic goes for when the kids use their phones or tablets irresponsibly and have them taken away, he said. Some viewers took issue with the children not having access to their phones and accused the parents of isolating them from their friends. But Ruby and Kevin see it as a way to ensure they learn to be responsible and not to be dependent on screens.

"Having that need for electronics is the introduction into disconnect," Ruby said. "And that is why people are so uncomfortable with me showing a connected family. It rubs them against their shame, and they project what they're seeing onto me."

'It was just so malicious'
Ruby and Kevin said they weren't prepared for the backlash against them. Not only were established gossip channels like Tea Spill and Spill Sesh reporting the story, but new accounts were springing up because they knew it was a trending topic that could get them hundreds of thousands of views.

The couple said some accounts purposefully took clips out of context, such as a video where Ruby and Kevin installed a bidet in their bathroom during a recent toilet-roll shortage.

"The master bathroom is off-limits to the kids, but they have five other bathrooms in the house that they have access to," Ruby said. "And I had made a comment: 'Well, you could do some extra chores around the house so that you can come and use the bathroom.'"

Without the context of the full video, this clip could make it sound as if Ruby allowed her children to go to the bathroom only if they did housework. But she was saying the kids could use the master bathroom with the bidet as a kind of reward for completing their chores.

"It was just so malicious," she said. "They knew what they were doing was out of context. They were purely seeking to throw hate. That was their only objective. A reasonable person would not have seen that video and thought, 'She is a child abuser.'"

8 Passengers
The Franke family. Ruby and Kevin Franke
The narrative about abusive parenting was a powerful one. It's everyone's prerogative to agree or disagree with a family's parenting style, but it's quite another to accuse them of something as severe as child abuse. While some videos were made out of genuine concern, plenty were not.

"All of this is really ironic," Kevin said. "So many of these individuals are coming and they're intending to do us harm by accusing us of exploiting children for money, yet they are here exploiting my children and my family for their own personal gain."

He said they'd seen everything from death threats to attempts to get him fired from his job as a university professor of engineering. Companies have torn up their sponsorship contracts after viewers contacted them, and their children have received messages telling them to kill themselves, they said.

"Does that sound like they're really worried about child abuse?" Ruby said. "It does not sound consistent with what they're saying, and it's because they're not being honest about their motives."

Child protective services showed up at their house
The Division of Child and Family Services in Utah, where the Frankes live, showed up to their house about a week ago after one viewer set up a Change.org petition. The workers visited with each of the children individually over the two hours they were there, Kevin said.

"When they walked in unannounced, Eve and Ruby were baking bread together and doing a puzzle," Kevin said. "Hardly the evidence of an abusive home."

A letter from DCFS seen by Insider said the case, which alleged that Ruby was the perpetrator, was closed because the claims were unsupported.

Kevin said the workers said they were embarrassed they had to visit at all and apologized for the stress inflicted on the family.


Kevin and Ruby said that while their lives were far from ruined, the past few weeks had certainly knocked them.

Ruby said she had a lot more empathy and compassion for people who find themselves in the heat of a scandal on social media because it can really harm a person's mental health.

"People who aren't in a healthy mindset, it could drive someone to suicide, easily," she said. "I can see now, having gone through it, that it could take your life."

'My kids are so strong'
Kevin said he "can't express" how proud he is of all his children.

Ruby said the kids had told her that they prayed for everyone who was sending negativity their way. One of her daughters told her that people were spreading rumors only because they were looking for acceptance.

"My kids are so strong," she said. "They are amazing. And they have come together and have even prayed for our enemies. These people who are hating on us, they pray that they will feel the love that they are searching for."

As for Chad, Kevin said he was in a "wonderful place right now," with a good group of friends and a healthy outlook on life where he "holds high standards and high boundaries."

"He's definitely not chained in our basement," he said.

Thanks for the article. I have just two words for this dysfunctional family: BULL SHIT

[athyker]

I call total bs and nothing more than damage control on that article.

Same with these last few videos. How many times did Ruby say friends in the RV video? I bet Chad didn't pay for his haircut. Any other time he would have. It also looked like he had nice shoes. I wonder who paid for them.

Nice try Kevin and Ruby but this is not Chad or Eve's fault. It's your horrible irresponsible narcissistic parenting!!!

[HelloSweetie]

Ruby’s (and Kevin’s) new “explaining” of the situations actually made me more angry than the original vlogs. At lest before I thought she really didn’t know better because she’s been raised in heartless dysfunction herself. Listening to her explain that she was suffering along with Eve just shows what a fake and totally unempathetic BS human Ruby is.... and Kevin!


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[131618]

Ruby’s (and Kevin’s) new “explaining” of the situations actually made me more angry than the original vlogs. At lest before I thought she really didn’t know better because she’s been raised in heartless dysfunction herself. Listening to her explain that she was suffering along with Eve just shows what a fake and totally unempathetic BS human Ruby is.... and Kevin!


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Right?!? I'm used to thinking the Griffith's fam (and spouses) suck but I hadn't realized just HOW underhanded and revolting Ruby and Kevin were. That article says all I need to know about them. I used to think they were the more "normal" ones

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[Audrey3196]

The article is absolutely bs and a way for them to cover their tracks. Business Insider isn’t the most reputable or platforms so I doubt the article will gain any traction. What bothers me and truly makes me sad is that ruby and Kevin are so focused on the kids being “responsible” they are missing out on a lot of time to truly get to know each of their children. It’s saying a lot that there isn’t much technology in the house and ruby still doesn’t really know her kids or what they like. You can still teach responsibility and also have a loving relationship. I wouldn’t want to have a mom who doesn’t seem to really like me or wants to spend any meaningful time with me or get to know who I am as a person.

[Gigi7]

So I did some research:

Case Findings for CPS are as follows:

1. Supported.
2. Unsupported.
3. Without Merit.
4. Unable to Locate.
5. Unable to Complete Investigation.
6. False Report.

According to the article they found the case “unsupported” which means: there is insufficient evidence that abuse or neglect occurred.

So, insufficient evidence.

A much better outcome would have been without merit: there is evidence that abuse or neglect did not occur.

Or maybe false report: the report was made by someone who knew it was false


I don’t think CPS takes cases based on change.org. I read that there needs to be a person reporting, this person will provide an Address for where the child lives. Also they do unscheduled visits depending on the allegations.

Having read the guidelines I see they exclusively focus on very obvious signs of abuse or neglect. Even though emotional abuse is mentioned, the focus is on this physical harm. And I get it, that’s where a child’s life is in immediate danger.

Still I hope the case worker made at least a comment to them about the children’s lack of beds

[imoverit]

Saying this as someone who used to work in journalism, an article in Business Insider is a joke. It's basically advertising--it used to be one of the go-to places to freelance if you couldn't get steady work because they'll take anything. Forbes is the same way. I bet Ruby and Kevin pitched the story to BI. Nobody reads it, and nobody will take it seriously, especially given the lazy journalism in the article itself.

This is exactly the impression I got from reading the article. It sounded like junk to me, and clearly biased in 8 passengers' favor rather than reporting all the facts in an objective manner. Ruby doesn't read the news so I hardly think she would know what reputation BI has - she probably thinks it's fantastic and professional and everyone should be impressed she's on it. Maybe Jennifer will print it out and hang it on the wall.

And regarding the CPS visit - I agree that it's unlikely they went over because of the petition, I just don't think that's how it works, it would've been from phone calls. And I don't know what Kevin is so proud of, we all knew CPS wouldn't be able to do anything because they provide the kids with food (even if it sucks) and a normal-looking home. So is he feeling all high and mighty that his kids don't live in a meth house and get beaten daily by drug addict parents? Weird flex

[Parktown]

So basically we are told how absolutely amazing Ruby and Kevin are!
How we are enemies and haters ,how we are projecting, how Chad was physically and emotionally unbalanced for years etc...
That..we nearly drove her to take her life... dear Lord seriously!? Then time to stop blogging!!!! Because your children face that at school daily from your videos!!!!
The humbleness is humbling!!!!
Ruby and Kevin I was raised by very loving present parents and had a magical childhood, though my father worked hard to provide the best for us he was amazing at being present!
I never got threatened with losing my bed in fact my parents would sleep elsewhere if I was sick and put in their bed! My dad once went without food to buy us Christmas presents to this day I remember positive reinforcements no punishments or threats! And Kevin we care for ourselves just fine!!!! You of all people should know teaching with harsh punishment never works!
Why is it the that Ruby’s manipulative cruel manner, threatening to cut off the head of her child’s soft toy or for years by her own admission to being cruel and strict and an absent Kevin, why then do you both make my skin crawl?!

[sheltiefan]

Not sure the Business Insider article was the best idea either. At least one reaction to the article is already up on YT. It will probably blow over eventually but I don't think the firestorm is over yet. I am surprised that sponsors dropped them which is a pretty bit hit financially from what I understand. Not been a good year for them-Rubydo failing, YT money taking a major drop, now the sponsorship deal.

Ruby and Kevin's attitude is what still gets me-they absolutely floor me!! Plus the article didn't address what many of the reaction vlogs were about and that's how the kids are shown in embarrassing situations, asking not to be videoed and Ruby did it anyway.

[YTIG60]

Not sure the Business Insider article was the best idea either. At least one reaction to the article is already up on YT. It will probably blow over eventually but I don't think the firestorm is over yet. I am surprised that sponsors dropped them which is a pretty bit hit financially from what I understand. Not been a good year for them-Rubydo failing, YT money taking a major drop, now the sponsorship deal.

Sponsors must have received a good deal of push back from viewers to stop working with them and I think there are a few out there that might keep up this pressure. I don't think there is anything they can do about a consumer who has a negative opinion on who a sponsor chooses to represent a product they are buying. I also image a company can see videos of their family that has questionable content when it comes to discipline.

The key to why they are able to continue their business is YouTube. I haven't understood why a petition wasn't more focused on YouTube since if you demonetized their channel, this family is done. There were videos of their children that would violate YouTube policy and it has been going on for a period of time, especially with Chad.

YouTube doesn’t allow content that endangers the emotional and physical well-being of minors. A minor is defined as someone under the legal age of majority -- usually anyone younger than 18 years old in most countries/regions.