The Murrays

[howdidigetintothis]

Danielle keeps posting to her Instagram stories about how tonight's constellation alignment is Satanic and how they're having to be ready for something. The end-of-times? I took screenshots of some of them that I can post later when I'm not at work, but it was even worse yesterday.

Another thing that's concerning is that both she and Jon are beginning to adopt a more stringent view of practicing their faith; over the past week there was a lot of posting about how saying "God knows my heart" regarding life's choices is another way of giving into sin, among other things that were similar (in that there are very specific ways to live your life, and straying from that will plunge you into the pit of darkness and whatnot). I also remember a while back that there were sentiments to the notion that if most modern, secular people are generally reacting negatively to how you express your faith, then that means you're doing Christianity right. I've seen this before in more fundamentalist circles, and the idea (albeit indirectly) is that this mirrors what Jesus must have gone through as he approached his crucifixion (in other words, right in line with the Murrays' existing persecution complex).

I want to stress that I have nothing against Christianity in general, but it's that specific, self-depreciating display of subservience and doomsday crises that causes people to turn their lives upside-down and begin pushing people away, further isolating themselves. The Murrays, whom we know are perpetually in crisis. are prime targets for this line of thinking.

Most disturbingly -- and shared in another screenshot I grabbed just in time -- is that Danielle is considering a "freebirth" (i.e., an unassisted homebirth) for this seventh baby. That's something she shared alongside a boomerang of her showing off her homeopathy kit (hopefully I don't need to get into that one). It's my hope that they are as much as a blessed people that they are (and simultaneously don't), or they're in a whole lot of danger in some way or another.

[ins93]

Danielle keeps posting to her Instagram stories about how tonight's constellation alignment is Satanic and how they're having to be ready for something. The end-of-times? I took screenshots of some of them that I can post later when I'm not at work, but it was even worse yesterday.

Another thing that's concerning is that both she and Jon are beginning to adopt a more stringent view of practicing their faith; over the past week there was a lot of posting about how saying "God knows my heart" regarding life's choices is another way of giving into sin, among other things that were similar (in that there are very specific ways to live your life, and straying from that will plunge you into the pit of darkness and whatnot). I also remember a while back that there were sentiments to the notion that if most modern, secular people are generally reacting negatively to how you express your faith, then that means you're doing Christianity right. I've seen this before in more fundamentalist circles, and the idea (albeit indirectly) is that this mirrors what Jesus must have gone through as he approached his crucifixion (in other words, right in line with the Murrays' existing persecution complex).

I want to stress that I have nothing against Christianity in general, but it's that specific, self-depreciating display of subservience and doomsday crises that causes people to turn their lives upside-down and begin pushing people away, further isolating themselves. The Murrays, whom we know are perpetually in crisis. are prime targets for this line of thinking.

Most disturbingly -- and shared in another screenshot I grabbed just in time -- is that Danielle is considering a "freebirth" (i.e., an unassisted homebirth) for this seventh baby. That's something she shared alongside a boomerang of her showing off her homeopathy kit (hopefully I don't need to get into that one). It's my hope that they are as much as a blessed people that they are (and simultaneously don't), or they're in a whole lot of danger in some way or another.

Really? I can't see her instagram because she blocked me after I sugested she should watch «Unwell», the netflix documentary talking about Young Living and essential oils. She called it "leftist propaganda". So now medicine is leftist propaganda. Sure. They're becoming more extremist over time, homeschooling their girls, talking more about religion, promoting conspiracy theories (John basically spends his days complaining about the covid vacine and masks and all of that), promoting essentials oils. Honestly a freebirth makes me nervous just thinking about it and I'm not even the one having it...

[howdidigetintothis]

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[howdidigetintothis]

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These were all posted in order on Danielle's latest string of stories. This also isn't the first time Danielle has mentioned following a "narrow path". I can't tell if she's smug or scared (or both).

[howdidigetintothis]

(I apologize for the multiple posts; the way this forum formats its posts is confusing to me and I couldn't fit it all in one reply.)

Really? I can't see her instagram because she blocked me after I sugested she should watch «Unwell», the netflix documentary talking about Young Living and essential oils. She called it "leftist propaganda". So now medicine is leftist propaganda. Sure. They're becoming more extremist over time, homeschooling their girls, talking more about religion, promoting conspiracy theories (John basically spends his days complaining about the covid vacine and masks and all of that), promoting essentials oils. Honestly a freebirth makes me nervous just thinking about it and I'm not even the one having it...

I loved the Unwell Netflix series! Danielle seems like someone who'd block out anything or anybody challenging her beliefs (probably thinking that it's a devil out to get her). I actually messaged Jon a few months ago to gently question him about the Wayfair scandal and point him towards a resource who actually works in sex trafficking since I figured he'd be the saner person to talk to. I don't know if "sane" is the right word for him nowadays, but he was at least more willing to have a conversation (he pretty much just took my info and disputed it; we had a brief back-and-forth and that was it).

I wonder if there's a particular denomination that they follow; they've picked up Jewish terms and traditions (attending Sukkot, etc.), but I haven't known Torah-observant Christians to be overly conservative or into conspiracies. I think it's interesting how they keep their YouTube fairly normal, as though to attract viewers that might later follow their other social media.

The likelihood of a freebirth worries me because each of Danielle's pregnancies has been harder than the last; I believe she developed hyperemesis gravidarum with the past one or two (basically really severe morning sickness that can be dangerous)? I hope we can chalk this consideration up to her being confident since she's young still and very experienced with pregnancy and birth, and not that she's avoiding the medical establishment. I've heard her openly consider unassisted birth before in a vlog a few years ago.

[NotAnotherUserName]

You nailed it on the head...they are becoming more extremist as time goes on. It’s incredibly bizarre. Maybe they’ve always been like this, they’re just showing more and more of themselves as time goes on. Their Facebook page exploded after they posted their most recent video telling all their friends and family they’re pregnant because no one was wearing a mask. Someone asked what their covid protocol is and Danielle (or maybe Jon) just posted a bible verse about God giving us a spirit of love and sound mind instead of fear. Also you can tell what Jon’s mom thinks of them continuing to pump out the kids. It’s written all over her face, just like the last time. I feel you Grandma Murray! Stop the madness!

And dear God, and unassisted homebirth? She may have had 6 already but there are so many things that can go wrong in an instant during delivery. So many women and babies died during childbirth back when modern medicine wasn’t even a thing and they didn’t have a choice. I will never understand these uber crunchy types who think they know more than doctors and science. What a freaking privilege it must be to stick your nose up at masks, vaccines, bleach, antibiotics, doctors and nurses, and hospital births. It’s because of modern day medicine that you even have that option!! I wonder if they’d be so smug if they were living back during the Black Plague.

[NotAnotherUserName]

Is anyone familiar with the Real Housewives of Orange County and Jeana Keough? Her daughter Kara just lost her baby earlier this year due to shoulder dystocia during delivery. She chose a homebirth because of covid and she had midwives there with experience but things still ended badly. Babies can sometimes even die in the hospital from this complication, as well as cord prolapse and other emergencies. But at least in the hospital you’re in the absolute best place and can be in the OR in mere minutes if necessary. I really think even assisted homebirths are dangerous but I realize not all feel the same way. I know most go just fine but why take the risk? To be totally frank if I were an EMT and responded to a homebirth gone bad I’d be irritated and annoyed about wasting resources for doing something so foolish. If you are low risk there are birth centers and even low/no intervention hospital deliveries that are much much safer options than at home.

[notyomama]

Birth itself is dangerous.

[howdidigetintothis]

And dear God, and unassisted homebirth? She may have had 6 already but there are so many things that can go wrong in an instant during delivery. So many women and babies died during childbirth back when modern medicine wasn’t even a thing and they didn’t have a choice. I will never understand these uber crunchy types who think they know more than doctors and science. What a freaking privilege it must be to stick your nose up at masks, vaccines, bleach, antibiotics, doctors and nurses, and hospital births. It’s because of modern day medicine that you even have that option!! I wonder if they’d be so smug if they were living back during the Black Plague.

Birth itself is dangerous.

Maybe they think that whether mothers and babies live or die should be in God's hands.
Hey, maybe that's my problem...my mom underwent a crash C-section with me at 40 weeks exactly after a perfect pregnancy because her labor slowed down and then stopped completely. They opened her up to find me in the proper head-down position, unable to budge with my head firmly wedged in her pelvis because I was simply too large to come out the other end. I should have become an angel! I shouldn't exist! I'm an abomination upon society!!! What do I know? /s


But seriously, in addition to circumstances like mine, we have to think about another reason why such interventions contribute to birth "not being what it used to be"; you see, my mom asked the doctor what would have happened to us had a C-section not been possible, like if I'd been born 100 years ago. He told her that either I -- or she and I both -- would have died (google "stone baby" to see what happens when the mother survives after a fetus dies and then fails to be delivered). Luckily, we were instead both rescued, and my mother went on have one more child: my brother, delivered via VBAC thanks to an induction at 37 weeks, since he was on track to becoming as large as I was.

I'm not sure what caused my mom to need such interventions, but what's for certain is that my brother and I are anomalous to what is "naturally" possible, whether it was shitty genes or simply an issue with my dad's large offspring not being compatible for delivery from my mom's small frame. If I were to become pregnant or if my brother were to get someone else pregnant, it is entirely likely that we could run into similar issues. This perceived snag would not have been possible in the good ol' days because we wouldn't have had the opportunity to experience it; my mom's bloodline would have ended through death or infertility after failing to give birth to me -- "survival of the fittest", so to speak. And though the survival of "unfit" people like me (and possibly my offspring) is contingent on medical intervention, it instead could -- and should -- be looked at as a means of evolution on the part of our species. The same goes for medical intervention for people with diseases and disabilities; they may not embody a physiological ideal, but they still have intrinsic value to society. I think my brother and I do as well.

I think certain people have lost touch with how far we've come technologically and have formed this idealized process of pregnancy and birth, putting their "birth experience" as the biggest objective, or considering it a divine process guided by God himself. I think this is especially pervasive in places with relatively low infant mortality rates, so it's unsurprising that those with great privilege take up this line of thinking (along with being anti-vaxx, etc.). The really sad part is that I don't think this mentality will go away until tragedy begins to occur more and more.

[ins93]

Just saw a video on their channel where they talk about "What we do for a living to support 6 kids!!!"
A few thoughts:
- John starts talking and Danielle always interrupts him, he can barely get 2 full sentences in
- Danielle says that she knew God had something in store for her with young living all along... Really? God wanted you to make money of exploring other people? I doubt that.
- They say they want to work hard now and then retire in 5 to 10 years. What? They have 7 young kids. That's not going to happen.
- Maybe I'm reading this wrong but John doesn't look happy (al all) when Danielle starts talking about young living and essential oils.
- They mention making videos for facebook. Anyone knows what's that about?

[howdidigetintothis]

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Good news for anyone who uses Parler; you can now follow Jon! /s

[howdidigetintothis]

Okay, I get that this isn't the most fascinating topic for most people (nothing wrong with that, I'm just bored at work), but I have to rant contribute again in light of Jon's reaction to our new presidential administration in his Insta stories; Jon was behaving immaturely yesterday (big surprise) during Biden's televised inauguration, and spent today responding to people who called him out. (He wasn't just disagreeing and commenting on it; he said he wished Trump would come out like a WWE fighter and take Biden down, hyperfixated on Lady Gaga's outfit, and said JLo should play WAP. Like, he was obviously joking, but they were things you wouldn't expect to come out of a grown-ass man who's trying so hard to be taken seriously.) He essentially doubled-down on how his political leanings are influenced by the Bible's teachings and that he and his family were going to have to make tough choices on what they'd have to "give up" to be true to their faith (like foregoing grocery shopping if they're forced to wear masks, etc.).

It's the self-centeredness that gets me. You hear a lot from people who begin sentences like "When I thought I was Christian..." or "When I thought I understood the Bible..." before going in with such hyperconservative or conspiratorial beliefs, which is, of course, what Jon does on the daily. It's not just annoying in general, but it's a slap in the face to people of faith who've studied the Bible and are getting a wildly different interpretation from whatever Jon gleaned from it. It's also always rubbed me the wrong way when people are so sure that they are going to be around to witness the end times, or that they're watching Biblical prophecies in action, as though they are so special enough to be privy to it and someone living 100 years ago or 100 years in the future isn't, and only because they personally spent the last few months doing deep dives. Someone actually DM'ed Jon for guidance on how to truly study the Bible and seek out the same truths that he knows, and Jon pretty much just said to...read the Bible. As though he's so smart that he's been able to figure out something that no one already has. The man wouldn't last two seconds if he ever tried to get a Master's in Divinity.

Danielle has been noticeably quiet, even on the oily front. Does she approve of anything Jon's saying or doing? Is she "submitting" to him now? Or is she (more plausibly) exhausted from pregnancy and raising a bunch of small children?

[ins93]

Okay, I get that this isn't the most fascinating topic for most people (nothing wrong with that, I'm just bored at work), but I have to rant contribute again in light of Jon's reaction to our new presidential administration in his Insta stories; Jon was behaving immaturely yesterday (big surprise) during Biden's televised inauguration, and spent today responding to people who called him out. (He wasn't just disagreeing and commenting on it; he said he wished Trump would come out like a WWE fighter and take Biden down, hyperfixated on Lady Gaga's outfit, and said JLo should play WAP. Like, he was obviously joking, but they were things you wouldn't expect to come out of a grown-ass man who's trying so hard to be taken seriously.) He essentially doubled-down on how his political leanings are influenced by the Bible's teachings and that he and his family were going to have to make tough choices on what they'd have to "give up" to be true to their faith (like foregoing grocery shopping if they're forced to wear masks, etc.).

It's the self-centeredness that gets me. You hear a lot from people who begin sentences like "When I thought I was Christian..." or "When I thought I understood the Bible..." before going in with such hyperconservative or conspiratorial beliefs, which is, of course, what Jon does on the daily. It's not just annoying in general, but it's a slap in the face to people of faith who've studied the Bible and are getting a wildly different interpretation from whatever Jon gleaned from it. It's also always rubbed me the wrong way when people are so sure that they are going to be around to witness the end times, or that they're watching Biblical prophecies in action, as though they are so special enough to be privy to it and someone living 100 years ago or 100 years in the future isn't, and only because they personally spent the last few months doing deep dives. Someone actually DM'ed Jon for guidance on how to truly study the Bible and seek out the same truths that he knows, and Jon pretty much just said to...read the Bible. As though he's so smart that he's been able to figure out something that no one already has. The man wouldn't last two seconds if he ever tried to get a Master's in Divinity.

Danielle has been noticeably quiet, even on the oily front. Does she approve of anything Jon's saying or doing? Is she "submitting" to him now? Or is she (more plausibly) exhausted from pregnancy and raising a bunch of small children?

A disclaimer to say that I'm not a christian but some of my family is. I really don't understand the kind of thinking of saying that wearing a mask goes against christian beliefs. Isn't the bible about altruism, compassion and empathy? About loving and protecting each other? Isn't wearing a mask doing exacly that?

[howdidigetintothis]

A disclaimer to say that I'm not a christian but some of my family is. I really don't understand the kind of thinking of saying that wearing a mask goes against christian beliefs. Isn't the bible about altruism, compassion and empathy? About loving and protecting each other? Isn't wearing a mask doing exacly that?

I think the mask thing has more to do with their ascription to alternative medicine (something to do with how wearing a mask restricts your airflow and makes you sicker, etc...), and that being told to do something they don't "believe in" plays into their Christian persecution complex. Although, I have heard other anti-maskers cite religion as their reason because they see it as not trusting God's design for our immune systems, which suggests that they've never met an immune-compromised person before...

Masks aside, you brought up something else that really strikes me about this family in reference to altruism, compassion, and empathy; it's one thing to have an extreme set of beliefs, but the Murrays -- especially Jon in particular -- are touting these beliefs and behaving in a way that is far from Christ-like. They are smug, combative, provocative, alienating, and, most notably, narrow-minded. What makes the latter stand out is that they have all but proclaimed themselves as such, literally saying they've "ditched the wide road for a narrower path" in multiple social media posts. I know that's in reference to their choice to become more strict adherents to their faith and live more intentionally, but their actions speak to how they've applied that to other aspects of their lives; they're removing things (Disney, etc.), media outlets (mainstream news), ideologies ("Christianity-lite"), and, presumably, people. Eventually, there won't be much left.

[NotAnotherUserName]

Did anyone else catch their Facebook live from yesterday? Holy shit, these people are so incredibly irresponsible. Danielle was sick in bed for 2 months with a “mystery virus” and morning sickness and never went to the doctor. She magically cured herself with her essential oils, supplements, and rest. She is 18 weeks pregnant and hasn’t had any prenatal care, and isn’t really looking for midwives yet. She said there is plenty of time for them to see someone “if they choose to” and that they have a Doppler so they’ve been listening to the heartbeat and that’s how they know the baby is healthy and growing. She said they want a homebirth and the only reason she *may* hire someone to assist is because Jon is too nervous about childbirth (as he should be). She was so cavalier about saying she already has given birth 6 times so she’s an “expert”. I can’t even with these freaking idiots anymore.

And poor Merryn looks like she has a lazy eye. Her left eye kept drifting to the side when she was looking at the camera. I hope they are going to get that looked at but most likely they’ll just slather her in oils and pray about it.

[ins93]

Did anyone else catch their Facebook live from yesterday? Holy shit, these people are so incredibly irresponsible. Danielle was sick in bed for 2 months with a “mystery virus” and morning sickness and never went to the doctor. She magically cured herself with her essential oils, supplements, and rest. She is 18 weeks pregnant and hasn’t had any prenatal care, and isn’t really looking for midwives yet. She said there is plenty of time for them to see someone “if they choose to” and that they have a Doppler so they’ve been listening to the heartbeat and that’s how they know the baby is healthy and growing. She said they want a homebirth and the only reason she *may* hire someone to assist is because Jon is too nervous about childbirth (as he should be). She was so cavalier about saying she already has given birth 6 times so she’s an “expert”. I can’t even with these freaking idiots anymore.

And poor Merryn looks like she has a lazy eye. Her left eye kept drifting to the side when she was looking at the camera. I hope they are going to get that looked at but most likely they’ll just slather her in oils and pray about it.

If she was in bed for 2 months it definitively sounds like her essential oils were very effective... Imagine if you have a virus, are pregnant and you go to the doctor and he's like "If you're not feeling better in 2 months please come back"...
But how do they know it was a virus? Maybe she had hyperemesis?

She's being very irresponsible... I mean, if there's a heartbeat the baby is alive and that's all you know basically. You don't know if it's healthy, growing properly and so on.

I wonder why women who had 6 births don't immediately qualify to be obstetricians since it means they are experts on giving birth and such?

God, she's really dumb.
Her daughters are so smart and cute. It's a shame they are being homeschooled. They deserve a good education and they're definitively not getting that from those parents. (Although I think that Jon really likes the girls though).

[ins93]

Has anybody seen their latest video? They buy rabbits for the girls and they get them from a lady at a parking lot. The lady I wearing a mask and they are standing right next to her not wearing one because they're into all the covid conspiracy stuff. Honestly, it's just rude!

[ins93]

Anybody surprised these two are headed towards another baby?

[malcolmanderson2020]

this is very interesting for me