ThisGatheredNest: Lip Fillers and Lil Critters | Part 3

[Amsouthernbell]

Ok so the house ashleigh lives in is small...do we think she will move? I don’t see that they can afford it but maybe the wealthy smug sister will help out. I think that Angie is incredibly jealous of the fertility of her older sister I truly believe she will probably adopt 2 more kids just to out do her sister

[devilishtenshi]

Ok so the house ashleigh lives in is small...do we think she will move? I don’t see that they can afford it but maybe the wealthy smug sister will help out. I think that Angie is incredibly jealous of the fertility of her older sister I truly believe she will probably adopt 2 more kids just to out do her sister

They should. They did downsize so maybe they can afford another bedroom? Or maybe they can’t now that another baby is coming


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[devilishtenshi]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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[Hyacinth]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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If a midwife delivers your baby your baby you have to pay them. Free birthing is potentially so incredibly dangerous though - it is total and utter idiocy.

[Kataja]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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Especially since she is older woman (to give birth, not otherwise) and has multiple children, I wouldn't recommend free birthing at all. If i'm not mistaken, the risks increase when you get older and when you have had multiple births already.

[ins93]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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If a midwife delivers your baby your baby you have to pay them. Free birthing is potentially so incredibly dangerous though - it is total and utter idiocy.

Wait, what? That's a thing for people to have people with no midwife, no hospital, nothing? Seriously, what's wrong with people? That sound like negligence to me.

[Amsouthernbell]

Has anyone considered that Angie is taking a break from social media so her sister can have more traffic to her instagram and YouTube?

[haterade]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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If a midwife delivers your baby your baby you have to pay them. Free birthing is potentially so incredibly dangerous though - it is total and utter idiocy.

Wait, what? That's a thing for people to have people with no midwife, no hospital, nothing? Seriously, what's wrong with people? That sound like negligence to me.

Yes, it's incredibly dangerous and negligent. From my understanding, the only prenatal care Ashleigh had with Ruby was a 20-week scan at an ultrasound facility, not even with a midwife or OB. She named her Ruby Shalom because she felt "called by God" to free birth. The scan she had with Mabel was at an ultrasound facility as well. She said that the women who run it are also ultrasound techs at a high-risk office, but failed to mention that ultrasound techs are not permitted to diagnose anything. She also didn't specify if either of those women were the ones who actually performed her scan.

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[mouse268]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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From what I have read in the previous threads here, I actually believe it's illegal (maybe not the correct wording) to have a midwife present at a home birth and they can risk their job and be thrown in jail for being there. I don't think it's that they don't want a midwife rather its literally illegal for a midwife to be present and if something does go wrong and the midwife needs to transport the mother to the hospital, the midwife gets in a lot of trouble. From what I have found, the midwife CAN technically be there if her supervising doctor approves of it but apparently that's a very rare occurrence that they allow it to happen.

Im actually just reading an article about this to make sure the information is correct and it turns out many families in NC have unassisted home births because they can't find midwives who are willing or able to be there.

[Kataja]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth

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From what I have read in the previous threads here, I actually believe it's illegal (maybe not the correct wording) to have a midwife present at a home birth and they can risk their job and be thrown in jail for being there. I don't think it's that they don't want a midwife rather its literally illegal for a midwife to be present and if something does go wrong and the midwife needs to transport the mother to the hospital, the midwife gets in a lot of trouble. From what I have found, the midwife CAN technically be there if her supervising doctor approves of it but apparently that's a very rare occurrence that they allow it to happen.

Im actually just reading an article about this to make sure the information is correct and it turns out many families in NC have unassisted home births because they can't find midwives who are willing or able to be there.

I'm not from USA but what I've learnt reading these boards is that in some states it is fine and in others it's not. (For example in Maine it is legal for midwife to attend home birth) Also, I think in some states there might be a distinction there, if you are a midwife or a certified nurse midwife (an actual health care professional).

[wasteoftime]

There is no such excuse. Yes, a proper certified nurse midwife can attend a home birth, they're trained to keep mom and baby safe. Why would you want some fool who isn't even a proper nurse to be there instead of a medical practitioner?! When you're close to 40 and you've had multiple births you're higher risk, I can't imagine thinking it's a good idea to have nobody there, not only is the baby at risk but all the children risk losing their mom. I definitely wouldn't want someone who is just obsessed with being at births for fun instead of an actual qualified certified midwife. There's no excuse for 'freebirthers'. If they can't afford a midwife then how can they afford the child?

Every few months Angela "lifts the veil" and tells us how her children and husband help to do everything, as though it's some kind of revelation, but how does Ashley adequately look after 7 children and homeschool all of them with her husband at work full time?

[ins93]

There is no such excuse. Yes, a proper certified nurse midwife can attend a home birth, they're trained to keep mom and baby safe. Why would you want some fool who isn't even a proper nurse to be there instead of a medical practitioner?! When you're close to 40 and you've had multiple births you're higher risk, I can't imagine thinking it's a good idea to have nobody there, not only is the baby at risk but all the children risk losing their mom. I definitely wouldn't want someone who is just obsessed with being at births for fun instead of an actual qualified certified midwife. There's no excuse for 'freebirthers'. If they can't afford a midwife then how can they afford the child?

Every few months Angela "lifts the veil" and tells us how her children and husband help to do everything, as though it's some kind of revelation, but how does Ashley adequately look after 7 children and homeschool all of them with her husband at work full time?

Has anybody seen the trailer for Pieces of a women? It looks really good. The synopsis reads: When a young mother's home birth ends in unfathomable tragedy, she begins a year-long odyssey of mourning that fractures relationships with loved ones in this deeply personal story of a woman learning to live alongside her loss.

[howdidigetintothis]

There is no such excuse. Yes, a proper certified nurse midwife can attend a home birth, they're trained to keep mom and baby safe. Why would you want some fool who isn't even a proper nurse to be there instead of a medical practitioner?! When you're close to 40 and you've had multiple births you're higher risk, I can't imagine thinking it's a good idea to have nobody there, not only is the baby at risk but all the children risk losing their mom. I definitely wouldn't want someone who is just obsessed with being at births for fun instead of an actual qualified certified midwife. There's no excuse for 'freebirthers'. If they can't afford a midwife then how can they afford the child?

Every few months Angela "lifts the veil" and tells us how her children and husband help to do everything, as though it's some kind of revelation, but how does Ashley adequately look after 7 children and homeschool all of them with her husband at work full time?

I'll admit I have a soft spot for Ashleigh, but this feeds into what I went on about earlier on how she and Angela have a "pie in the sky" mentality, and how they're used to everything working out in the moment with little regard for the future since they've been so "blessed". She has mentioned multiple times that "babies know how to be born" and stresses heavily how our bodies are "designed" for pregnancy and childbirth; that first sentiment pisses me off a bit (for a reason that should probably be obvious further down), and the second one just makes me sad. Ashleigh's made no secret that she's a creationist, but she's depending so heavily on God to come through for her, for she believes that, since her body was so perfectly designed for this, delivery will come smoothly if she just has enough faith. Will she feel let down if something goes awry, or will she think she wasn't pious enough and feel guilty?

I think a lot of the justification behind a "natural" birth at home -- even going as far as to freebirth -- is that it goes off of the belief and assumption that, since our bodies have all the systems and plumbing necessary to conceive, carry, and birth a baby (in most cases), then we shouldn't fix what's not broken. This not only fails account for the obvious exceptions who would otherwise die or become maimed/infertile without the aid of medical treatment, but the aftermath of such lifesaving interventions.

For example, I was the product of a crash C-section because I was too large to fit through my mother's birth canal, even though I was exactly 40 weeks along and my mom had experienced a perfect pregnancy (I was in position and everything; my head was just stuck in her pelvis and wouldn't budge). No one's sure what caused me to be so big (or my mom's birth canal so small), but it was pervasive enough that my younger brother had to be (safely) induced at 37 weeks for my mom to have a successful VBAC because his growth was progressing just like mine. This suggests either a genetic issue or an incompatibility between my parents to have normal offspring; it's enough to assume that my brother or I will have similar problems if we have our own biological children. Neither of us should exist had things progressed "naturally", since not only would I definitely have died, but our line would have possibly ended with my mom's death or sterilization (google "stone baby" to see what happens when a fetus cannot be delivered). Since I'm essentially an anomaly to the natural order of things, why should I assume that I could have a safe, unassisted birth with no issues?

My whole point in sharing that is to assert that what we know as "natural birth" doesn't exist. There are tons of people walking around today that would not be here if not for medical advancement, including those with disabilities, in-vitro babies and weird cases like mine. And in life and the pursuit of happiness, we're more than likely to express or pass on whatever shitty genes caused our complicated births, and the cycle of medical intervention will continue. Medical intervention is simply a means of evolution and a testament to our species' self-preservation.

(Sorry, I'm passionate about this.)

[mouse268]

I would like to see what Angie thinks of her sister's choice to birth at home. I don't think they would have chosen to have as many kids as they do if they didn't genuinely love and care about kids. Especially the adoptions, I'm not sure about the embryo adoption but I know from a few other channels that domestic adoption can be quite pricy. I believe Phil and Alex were trying to fundraise 30k for Callie's adoption.

For Angie and CR to have so many kids I genuinely believe that they love kids and want to help kids. I would be interested to see what she honestly thinks about her sister's choices with putting her babies at so much risk of having them at home completely unassisted. For someone like Angie that honestly does seem to want to help and care for kids (I just think maybe she has bitten off more than she can chew but I don't doubt her heart is in the right place) I think the fact her sister seems to not care about the health and safety of her baby is the complete and total opposite.

[wasteoftime]

Has anyone considered that Angie is taking a break from social media so her sister can have more traffic to her instagram and YouTube?

, no I don't think she's being mysteriously selfless. If she wanted to support her then she'd be mentioning her channel, listing her channel under her own and keeping them on camera when they're visiting. She hardly uses social media anyway, every post is manufactured and every other post is a sponsorship. She's lost her authenticity. I've been waiting around for it to come back, I really hope her new direction came from a bit of soul searching but we'll see.

[Pfefferminza]

Has anyone considered that Angie is taking a break from social media so her sister can have more traffic to her instagram and YouTube?

, no I don't think she's being mysteriously selfless. If she wanted to support her then she'd be mentioning her channel, listing her channel under her own and keeping them on camera when they're visiting. She hardly uses social media anyway, every post is manufactured and every other post is a sponsorship. She's lost her authenticity. I've been waiting around for it to come back, I really hope her new direction came from a bit of soul searching but we'll see.

I agree with you! And I think she genuinly needs a break. You could see her being stressed and not enjoying what she's doing in the last 8 weeks or so.
Her content also became quite boring. One take videos with her walking on her property for 8 minutes and rambling into the camera about nothing of interest... no or very little mention of schooling her children or actually playing or doing things with them (which she or cr probably did just off camera).

But I get being stressed - she has a lot to handle. It's not slow loving country life that she got with her new house. Just more chores. All the consuming (the cardbord Boxers on the porch in almost every vlog... ) would be stressful to some extent too. I wish she could slow down and enjoy what she has instead of always hustle for more in a lot of aspects in her life (or at least how she portraits her life online). But I guess somewhat prevents her from being "still", from not always looking for another goal or activity...
Happy New year to all of you !

[Pfefferminza]

And for Ashleigh- like some of you - i do have a soft spot for her, too. I enjoy her honesty a lot. I see that she has a lot of knowledge and experience about birthing and i like her talking about her experiences as she finds encouraging and empowering words often times. And her views on some parenting topics helped me out a couple of times in my own parenting journey. I also enjoyed her getting into gardening this year. She became quite knowledgable in a short time. Other than her sister she does not only throw money at problems.

All that said that whole freebirthing thing freaks me out.
I do get the "romantic" idea of having a birth without interventions in the comfort of your own home. I see the appeal - but only with a midwife attending. Doing an unassisted home birth by choice is something i cannot wrap my head around. Midwifery is for a reason one of the oldest professions. I share the sentiment that in most cases giving birth is not a pathology and shouldn't be treated as one. I'm all for little/none interventions if they are unnessecary. But there are still many szenarios where support (other than the partner) is needed.
If a midwife attended home birth is not available in your state then just use a hospital!
I wonder what's a bigger motivation for her - demonstrating her being superior and more motherly compared to all non-freebirthers or saving the expenses of a hospital birth...
Also the whole "wanting" to foster situation... they moved in order to do that but couldn't be bothered to use a condom...

[Freecali]

Also I hope things go well for Ash and her baby again since she is planning on free birthing again. So dangerous. I don’t understand what’s so bad about having a midwife in your home for a birth


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Especially since she is older woman (to give birth, not otherwise) and has multiple children, I wouldn't recommend free birthing at all. If i'm not mistaken, the risks increase when you get older and when you have had multiple births already.

yes, especially for postpartum hemorrhage and potentially the baby not being positioned correctly. I’m on baby #7 and this is closely watched by my OBGYN.

[Anne Bonny]

Just wanna clear up some misconceptions about midwives and homebirths:

- Homebirths in women who are low-risk can be safe with either a Certified-Nurse-Midwife OR am experienced CPM/LM (Certified Professional Midwife/Licensed Midwife). The former has a nursing degree, the latter studied midwifery exclusively and then apprentices and attends a certain number of births before they can sit the licensing exam. Many states (including my own) do not allow a CNM to attend a homebirth and it will threaten her nursing license so if you want a homebirth in those states you have to use a CPM. Experienced CPMs caring for low-risk women still have statistically better outcomes than hospitals. Having a trained, experienced professional with many births under their belt is the important part and with either form of midwife, they are specifically educated in what signs to look for that may signal a need for transfer or impending emergency before it gets to the point of being life-threatening.

- Midwifery is NOT illegal in NC. It is a-legal. What this means is that while many states have strict (and sometimes non-evidence-based) laws regarding who midwives may or may not take on for homebirth, who can be a homebirth midwife, what requires a transfer...no such law exists there. This is beneficial in many ways for homebirth midwives because they are not subject to non-medical male lawmaker's whims about what they can and cannot do and who they can or cannot see, even when those laws are not supported by medical literature BUT this can also be very harmful because anyone could technically take on the title of midwife without state-specific regulation and they don't have absolute protection either since they cannot point to following rules and regulations if a bad outcome occurs and could be perceived as "practicing medicine without a license".

- Ashleigh absolutely can have a homebirth with a midwife in NC. There are several good ones in her area. Most likely its a money thing since prenatal care + a birth with a homebirth midwife often runs 2-4k.

- Unassisted birth is stupid and irresponsible. Since the beginning of time, women have always some form of skilled birther/midwife with them across almost all cultures and periods except specifically for cultures that villify childbirth and force women to birth alone. Ashleigh would not be able to detect a red flag of an impending problem in the middle of her birth, neither her nor her husband are skilled to handle stabilizing her and keeping her well until EMS arrives, and the risk of complications (even manageable ones for a midwife in a home setting) increases because she is grandmultiparous (has had so many pregnancies/births) and getting older.

I'm a women's health nurse (also work as an ICU nurse) currently going through a nurse-midwifery program and I've had a c-section with an OB, a VBAC homebirth with a CPM/LM, and a hospital VBAC with a CNM .

[lennoxalba7]

The only reason Ashleigh wants to freebirth is because of money. They dont want to pay for the hospital birth or a midwife. Its incredibly stupid of them.


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