wedding venue withholding our deposit - no contract. help!

[a_is_for]

Ugh, this is stressing me out so much.
So we got married in January. Had an AMAZING venue, but the whole process of getting the venue was kind of shady.

The venue is apart of the national train company, so pretty organised and high up, but the guys dealing with this venue was definitely sketch, but we were determined to get this venue.

Since Sept we were pushing to sign the contract and pay for the venue to secure it, but we kept getting blown off but 'assured' it was ours.. finally come Dec the guy is in a real rush for us to pay and get it all done before he goes on holidays. Well duh.

So months ago we SAW he contract, very briefly. I don't remember what was really on it but seemed standard for the most part. Some strange things like we had to hire some fire men and police to use the venue, I guess because it's on the port - so we did this. Everything else seemed unremarkable.

But we didn't actually SIGN any contract, we just saw it under request of the head boss and then to think if we really wanted it. This was like in October.
By the time Dec came we didn't sign any contract, just paid for the place, as well as $2,500 for deposit.

It's now April and we're still fighting for the deposit back. They're all the time coming with a different story of how much will be returned and when, the amount always changing from the full amount, to half to less then half, then full, etc etc.. but never providing us with a list of deductions or charges showing why we're not getting the full amount. Finally this week my husband went in furious to demand a list and see what we're looking at. They came up with this RIDICULOUS list and claiming that we will only get $1000 returned.

The list included things like -- we used gas for cooking so need to replace, cleaning the stoves, cleaning in general, repainting(??), hiring a truck to take out the garbage, contingencies -- all of that costing over $1,500.

I agree that we need to clean the stoves. We hired a guy right after the wedding to come in on Sunday to clean - but without telling us or anyone decided he didn't work on Sundays so didn't show up. We had no idea, just assuming it was done until the boss rang us on Monday complaining.
They have changed their story non stop about issues. Originally the Monday after the wedding claimed that the stove was broken (it wasn't), a wall was broken (it wasn't), all kinds of issues we immediately got resolved.

Stuff like replacing the gas and a truck for the garbage is absurd to me, and I feel like they're just coming up with excuses. If we were to be held accountable wouldn't this be in a contract?

I think we are definitely going with a lawyer and will contest this, we just haven't met with one yet. I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with this and can tell me what to expect.

Will the fact that we didn't sign a contract help us, or make things worse?

[a_is_for]

Actually, not signing a contract could potentially help you depending on the laws in your state.

As long as they have no proof that they provided you with a contract or rules that you had to abide by (with a signature from you), there is no proof that you HAD to do x, y and z.

You shouldn't be held accountable because you were unaware of these seemingly made up rules.

As long as you did not break any written document/agreement, I think you should be fine.

The only thing that could potentially hurt you is the guy you hired but as long as you have some proof that you hired him and phone records to show that the venue didn't contact you until after the guy didn't show up, you shouldn't have to pay for more than that.

You may be able to find someone to consult with for free about the possible outcome If you were to go to court.

PS. I'm not a lawyer but I'm hoping to go to law school so I have limited knowledge.

So sorry that you're dealing with this right after your wedding!

Thanks so much - this is exactly what I was hoping to hear. To be honest, I'm totally ok with paying for the stoves to be cleaned -- I just want a fair return, not this bullshit of gas, and garbage, etc etc.. it's clear they're just trying to keep as much as possible. But with the lawyer I will make sure we get a few different quotes to show how much a reasonable charge for the cleaning should be and argue for that. The rest I'm calling bullshit. Show me something that says I had to pay for garbage or gas.. ooohhhh right, you can't.

Anyway.. thanks!

[EleanorRigby]

Okay, now I'm far from an expert lol. My law class just started talking about contract law. I remembered your issue so I wrote down anything that may be helpful. Anyone can feel free to correct me!

Okay. So basically, they are breaching the contract you guys had. Part of that is that you get your security deposit back. It's been months, they are clearly stalling trying to give you your money back. You do not need a signed contract to prove a contract was made. There are 4 elements to a contract 2 of which are relevant:

1. Agreement - a promise was made. They promise to let let you use the venue, you promise to pay them in exchange, giving them a security deposit in the mean time.

2. Consideration - Exchange of something of value. Your money for the use of the venue.

You had a contract with them that was just as binding as anything written down. A judge would look at your case and see that. Unfortunately you may might be entitled to all of your deposit back. And if you have proof they are lying about damage I would have photographic evidence of that as well.

All in all they are in the wrong. You're definitely right to go to a lawyer. Let us know how it goes!

[SvetlanaTopAropper]

I voted the wedding. That double kiss was just spectacular